Murray Walker: Hamilton Better Than Senna, Schumi | Page 4 | FerrariChat

Murray Walker: Hamilton Better Than Senna, Schumi

Discussion in 'F1' started by ingegnere, Aug 5, 2020.

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  1. CRG125

    CRG125 F1 Rookie

    Feb 7, 2005
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    Vivek
    Because they were back marker teams. Did Lewis win with a back of the pack team
     
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  2. Natkingcolebasket69

    Natkingcolebasket69 F1 World Champ

    I think you are just of bad faith.
    Explain to me how Schumacher in 94 had a leading tram when his teammate scored 10 points VS 92 for him?
    The Benetton was a decent car that year but inspite suspensions, points taken away he still won the championship.
    I mean it’s fine to be a Hamilton fan, but you got be fair.
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  3. jpalmito

    jpalmito F1 Veteran

    Jun 5, 2009
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    mathieu Jeantet

    Exactly in 1984 Senna managed to score three podiums in a car which was midfield at best.
     
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  4. crinoid

    crinoid F1 Veteran
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    Again as I posted before when MS won with Ferrari in 2000 it was the second or third best car in the field and also his 1994 Benetton was not the clear pace setter either. Williams was right there.
     
  5. jpalmito

    jpalmito F1 Veteran

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    #80 jpalmito, Aug 6, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2020
    To be honest i won't never like Hamilton with his golden chains , his rap attitude , the way he wants to give moral lessons to people.
    Go back to school Lewis ! learn History in all its complexity and don' t talk to Charles to kneel because enough is enough.
     
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  6. ktu

    ktu F1 Rookie

    May 30, 2012
    3,851
    Senna was before my time, but i'm know Senna was spectacular in that wet race, just as you described. I have seen multiple documentaries on Senna. I am a fan. He is regarded by some as the best. There are multiple times where Hamilton has been spectacular in the rain. He shouldn't have to do the same race, in the same rain, driving the same car as Senna to get credit. Again it's impossible to recreate that same scenario. If you look at their whole career, both have great rain performances. Again Senna has done things Hamilton hasn't done. Hamilton has done things Senna hasn't done. That's ok.
     
  7. Natkingcolebasket69

    Natkingcolebasket69 F1 World Champ

    In the rain- i never seen Hamilton with one lap on
    eVeryone but 2nd place like senna did in 93 at donnington.
    Hamilton is good but in the rain doesn’t come close to shumacher and senna and that’s also Ok!


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  8. jpalmito

    jpalmito F1 Veteran

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    Senna portugal first win in 1985 was absolutely fantastic.
    Rain was so heavy , aquaplaning everywhere.
    he nearly lapped the whole field.
     
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  9. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
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    Please keep P&R to P&R.

    Thanks for your cooperation.
     
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  10. ktu

    ktu F1 Rookie

    May 30, 2012
    3,851
    When did i say he had a leading team in 94? He couldn't win the championship in 93 with the car. The car was much more developed in 94. Still not the best car and he drove great to win in it. 2008 Hamilton's team mate placed 7th, while he was 1st. That says a lot also
     
  11. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
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    As a Ferrari fan - I say this with no pleasure - but I do think Hamilton at the very least is a contender for GOAT. He'll probably cement that at least record-wise this season and the next.
     
  12. Natkingcolebasket69

    Natkingcolebasket69 F1 World Champ

    U said he only won once he had a good car.
    94 car wasn’t good, he was just head and shoulder better than anyone and that’s okay. He was just that good & that’s okay!


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  13. ktu

    ktu F1 Rookie

    May 30, 2012
    3,851
    Lol.... As bizarre as it sounds, it's your right to disagree with both Senna's and Schumacher's team mate's about Hamilton's greatness. Knock yourself out
     
  14. Natkingcolebasket69

    Natkingcolebasket69 F1 World Champ

    Just don’t make that mistake.
    People do different things in different eras: more safety, easier to drive cars, more races stats are inflated.
    As a former college basketball player I have the same argument about Lebron James and Jordan. Scoring 30 in the 90’s was a feat because teams used to
    Score 92-95 again, now team score over 115 a game. It’s all relative Paul.
    Same thing for rally: Loeb won 8 titles in
    A row, surely he is the goat right? Guess what his peers voted for Carlos Sainz’ dad as the goat... Wait what? But he only won twice?! How could that be.
    Different era , different things.
    Take Jacques Villeneuve: loved him to pieces, starts his career with a bang->goes to a so so car game over.
    Put Hamilton in an average car from 09 onwards ? Same thing. Same for vettel with Ferrari.
    Top cars are so much better nowadays that it’s virtually impossible for a guy to win with a middle of the pack team.
    Is hamilton great? Goat- I’ll let u all have ur opinion but not for me.


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  15. ktu

    ktu F1 Rookie

    May 30, 2012
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    At last! A fellow Fchatter who agrees with multiple F1 drivers! I must be dreaming.
     
  16. Natkingcolebasket69

    Natkingcolebasket69 F1 World Champ

    There u go. U are again of bad faith. Like I said watch tape, learn your history.
    Not once did I tell you Hamilton wasn’t great. No point talking till u done some due dilligence.


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  17. ktu

    ktu F1 Rookie

    May 30, 2012
    3,851
    I mean great as in greater or on the same level as Senna & Schumacher. Here is both of their team mates ranking Hamilton just as great:

    Tell these two guys no point talking till they done some due dilligence:

    https://f1i.com/news/366316-barrichello-puts-hamilton-ahead-of-senna-and-schumacher.html

    https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/berger-hamilton-senna-same-level/4374478/
     
  18. Natkingcolebasket69

    Natkingcolebasket69 F1 World Champ

    Again, you dont seem to understand. Never told you he wasnt great, free to think what you want.
    I showed you facts that he never was dominant in the rain like senna was, facts that he never drove for a bottom team and he comes form a different era.
    U give me quotes that great, i showed u all top gear extract of all the guys including barrichello and schumacher rnaking senna as #1.
    Its all good u can pick him as ur #1. U just show lack of knowledge and appreciation of the previous eras. And im not even that older than u i bet.
    U first start Senna or Schumacher never beat a world champion, then u changed that to in the same car, then you tell us how come senna didnt win in a toleman or that schumacher and senna didnt become world champion unless they had a good car.
    U are missing the point. U can be good in ANY era, no one can be the greatest. When u see guys out of puberty driving those F1 cars it shows how much easier it is to drive than in the other era's... It doesnt mean they are not GREAT.
    One day you will be older and there will be a Joshua Davis driving a F1 from age 18 ,25 races a year and he will all the races and you will be like naaaaaaaaaaaah he is no greatest of all time, u guys dont understand its too easy nowadays, hamilton was the GOAT; and then someone will point out that Joshua Davis has 12 titles and so forth...
    It will happen, cant compare era, but there is no denying that in the wet the GOATs are Senna and Schumacher and their path to being in a top team to win was much harder than Hamilton....not to mention the length during which Mclaren has been dominating. Senna NEVER had that, Schumacher had it 5 years, we going to 7 for Mercedes.
    Like i said go watch some tape and due some due dilligence.
     
  19. jpalmito

    jpalmito F1 Veteran

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    Loeb won 9 in a row
    Sainz and Auriol were fantastics drivers with difficults rallies ( mille lacs , safari , acropole ....)
    Your post is just spot on.
    This is why to me eyes Prost career has so much value.
     
  20. Natkingcolebasket69

    Natkingcolebasket69 F1 World Champ

    Can’t compare Eras. People do different things in different eras it’s simple. Compare within the same Era otherwise it is futile.


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  21. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    9,252
    Kind of reminds me of LeClerk today so far......this year
     
  22. ktu

    ktu F1 Rookie

    May 30, 2012
    3,851
    I never changed my position on on anything. I first stated Ham beat 2 different champions in the same car over a season, Senna 1. Schumi 0. This has not changed. If somehow i miss worded it, or you miss understood i apologize, but this has always been my position and i haven't seen no one find that untrue. As i said there are many things all 3 did that no one did. All a driver can do is dominate in their era. When people say you can't compare eras, but then turn around and say the older drivers are better because of the cars, it does'nt make sense. Who knows how the older drivers would do in these new cars and vice versa. As Bottas said, these new cars have higher driver workload with all the technical data/settings to manage, all while trying to nail the perfect braking point. The older cars were more physical and were a challenge, but these current cars put more g's on the body, and the drivers have more races, so are forced to maintain a higher fitness. My view is Senna, Schumacher, Hamilton and others all have done enough to be considered the greatest F1 drivers. Good debating with you by the way
     
  23. ktu

    ktu F1 Rookie

    May 30, 2012
    3,851
    Again, your stance seems to be there is only one way to be great, is that you had to drive for a bottom team. My stance is there is multiple ways to be a great. Alonso said Hamilton's was great for winning in the 2009 car, said car was not good, but there are multiples ways to become a great. I don't think Fangio ever drove for a bottom team, but he is great. In fact Schumi never drive for a bottom team for a full season, Bennetton was the 4th best car on the grid when he came, comfortably above midfield, same with Ferrari. How did i show lack of appreciation of previous eras? I already mentioned appreciation for Senna, also admired Schumacher/ Hakkinen & still admire Montoya, not sure how you got confused there.
     
  24. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
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    It's all opinion, agreed. That said, it's an opinion held by some pretty esteemed folks.

    Ecclestone says he's top 5, Alonso says he's among the greats. Jordan says he could be GOAT. Rosberg's top 5, Lewis is #3 Nikki says Hamilton is the world's best driver.

    Just a small sample; I consider World Champion winners' opinions and the guy who ran F1 over others. I respect though it's a personal thing, and for folks that think Hamilton is not great, that's fine - he's not my brother or anything.

    :)
     
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  25. Natkingcolebasket69

    Natkingcolebasket69 F1 World Champ

    Yes again no one is the GOAT- the only GOAT I know is MJ and that’s about it.


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