Need advice from Pista owners

Your F12 is stunning. I can understand the problem in making the decision. This is where a second - and third - and 4th - car is sometimes required.

Re your comments on Pista:-

Arm rests. Cannot understand why the armrest on the driver side door is so short of where the arm actually rests. It truly makes me wonder about what goes on inside the heads of those inside Ferrari. Or maybe in this particular department a brain is not required. Much the same as the removal of the glove-box. Stupid. Totally pointless when you consider what little the weight saving it would represent. Same with the pathetic mesh side pockets which are totally useless. Anyway I digress... Thankfully the car itself drives well and looks the way it does but the lack of these basics is absolutely counterproductive in every sense and makes the mind boggle.

It's a tough decision you have but as a fun car I'm sure will Pista will own the F12 yet still cater for the weekend trips with wife. Is there anyway you can hold the F12 and have the Pista? What color/spec are you considering?

 

I do not believe that an ongoing discussion about the merits of 2 dissimiliar cars is worthwhile. The opinions went back and forth about which car is more desirable. Ultimately, a decision was made based on the essential criterian that truly matters- driving the damn car. There is a relevant parable that goes like this - A debate was raging about how many teeth there are in a horse's mouth. Each offering their opinion and insight on the issue.Finally, a voice was heard saying-" why don't we simply go to the barn and look into the horse's mouth."

 

You have a few BMW's there. Maybe just keep the track car and lose the rest. Keep the F12, the X5M, buy the Pista and call it a day for the time being. Grey's and blues are great on a Pista! I had a grey 488 and it looked sensational. I got more compliments of it than my Red Pista can you believe it. I mainly went with red on the Pista for a change but no regrets. But I can tell you the wife likes Pista a lot even on long trips.

 

Took my 488 GTB out today as I don't know when I will be able to do it again as we will go in lock down She is absolutely fantastic. Ild imagine the Pista even more. But I play with my gears and have fun ! The sound again pinned valves is awesome. Never considered a V-12 but it would be great to have both if a could.

 

I have lots of the cars mentioned in this thread and can perhaps add some proper British sense. (Yes, yes, an obvious oxymoron!!)

I’m currently touring Europe (Switzerland/Italy border) with a newly delivered 812 GTS, which by the way, is sublime. Why did they wait 50 years from the Daytona Spider? This car has a stiffer chassis than my Pista Spider and a wonderful GPF-inspired sound, for those that were ever worried. The day before the 812 GTS was delivered, something crazy happened - I took delivery of a delivery-miles GT2RS. It was kind of an impulse thing. I had a lovely 991.2 GT3RS that I loved (as per OP) and planned to own for a long time as a track day tool (yes, I know it is no dedicated track car but you can drive it to and from the track and it is brilliant on the track - for people with little time, it is perfect). So why did I sell? Our local dealer phoned me up suggesting a swap for a GT2RS. I was not really interested but I took a look at the market to see what the change cost should be. These days, I don’t tend to enjoy owning second-hand cars so much (no real issue but I usually end up moving them on quite quickly) but since I can’t get new GT products I have no choice. The GT3RS was a delivery mile car when I bought it. In my ‘market research’ on GT2RS, I came across a delivery mile car, in my perfect spec and from an OPC, at a cheaper price than my OPC was offering a lesser spec 3k miles car for. It proved irresistible when they accepted very close to my offer.

I then recalled Shadowfax’s constant eulogising over the GT2RS (and he also has a 3RS so maybe his comments are worthwhile...!) Anyhow, I’ve only done about 80 miles on the car so far so nothing really to report, except one thing relevant to the thread. I’ve mentioned a number of times on fchat that the 3RS has got me into trouble being so noisy (stopped by both German and Italian police on a trip in it last year - Italian police said they had no radar speed evidence but had had complaints about the noise “can you keep it a bit quieter in the mountains!”, German Police said “we have been following you all morning - we can hear you all over the valley”.) The 2RS could, I think, be perfect for me. I love the feel of both the 3 and 2, though the 2 feels much more car for some reason, but the turbo sound is great - can’t quite believe I’m saying this - and I, er, prefer it. It’s not sonically purer, but it sounds great and a bit more socially acceptable I feel. Going from n/a to turbo doesn’t have to be a downgrade, depending on how you feel about what great sound is. A bit controversial, and I’m not saying that n/a sound isn’t pure and wonderful.

So the Pista v the F12/812. Against an F12 it would be a no-brainer for me. The F12 is a great car but a generation behind and so the difference in driving dynamics in favour of the Pista would completely outweigh the small advantages it has on a night out. Let’s face it, a car feeling special is more important than comfortable. Otherwise buy a Bentley for nights out. Actually, I still have a Speciale and my answer would be the same for that car v the F12.

The 812 is much harder. I have a coupe and a GTS. I won’t keep both but in both, some of the same attributes apply. The race-mode downchanges are just fantastic. Better IMO than the Pista, which gives too much of an unnecessary jolt. When you drive the PDK ‘boxed 2 and 3 RS, you realise this is not really necessary. In the 812 it is perfectly judged and the sound is just amazing. I don’t feel as anti-social taking the 812 to its redline as I did with the 3RS. Not sure why, but volume must have something to do with it. It definitely isn’t noise quality because both 812s sound brilliant.

It took me a little while to get into the Pista Spider. At lower speeds (say 7/10ths) the 812 is just a more enjoyable car. The 812 has wonderful dynamic response when you lift off the throttle and use throttle properly for steering etc. It is no GT (that is also a great GT). It handles brilliantly with the rear steer making it feel like a much smaller car. If you weren’t so in love with the Pista’s looks, it would be your answer IMV. I took the Pista away with a friend and we drove some mountain passes (one advantage of not really being able to fly anywhere is the Ferraris are getting used if I want to take some time off). That was the first time I began to really feel it was a significant step above the Speciale. Both cars are wonderful on a mountain pass but the front end on the Pista, combined with its amazing torque, matched to Ferrari’s unique power delivery, make for comfortably the best car I have ever driven across a mountain.

And it is the best part of a 1,000 miles to get there, with race seats and little sound deadening - the Pista is a perfectly liveable and docile thing. If you love it, it’s your answer. I don’t think you’ll miss the F12, or its armrest! But if you like the way the 812 looks, it is the best car for your ‘needs’. It is pure Ferrari, maybe the last of its wonderful kind, it crosses the divide between V12 and agile handling like no other car, is emotive, inspiring to drive and a real event to be in and own. It would be fine on track (not as fine as a Pista), comfortable dining out (though not as comfortable as a Bentley) and no other car would sound as good. And did I mention its downchanges....?

The last thing I want to say, is that I hope Shadowfax is right about that GT2RS!

 

@Lukeylikey congrats on the 2rs! Pic and spec details pls. Agree 2rs sounds amazing for a turbo and sounds very purposeful at all rpms where the 3rs needs revs to get the sound happening.

watch from 41.5 mins on.

 

I thought the yellow seat belts were a bit odd, but when I saw the whole car, the yellow callipers on red exterior paint plus the yellow steering wheel centre stripe, I thought the yellow belts actually worked better than red. I love the look of the 2 and 3 in GR.
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Looks awesome! Personally I think GR is the 2rs's best color.... but I'm biased. Take it through the mountain pass next time. Love to hear your impressions.

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Wow. Incredible first post. I vote that this post be added to pantheon of the other legendary first posts.

 

My vote is for chalk/crayon, mind you I may also be slightly biased.....

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I will co-sign this.

As a person who daily's his Pista, unlike prior generations of special editions (Speciale, Scud, 360CS, etc.), the Pista is completely livable and enjoyable as a daily driver.

 

Just a small added piece, took the GTS over the same pass in Switzerland today as I took the Pista a month ago. Going up, the 812 is great, coming down, the Pista has it comfortably beat. The 812, for all its V12 loveliness feels it’s weight more and you have to brake earlier into those downhill hairpins....just in case! Still an awesome car though. I think the Pista would be better than the 2/3 RS too - its supple suspension would help significantly.

so many choices, so many fors and againsts! Oh well, choose what makes you happy because they are all great at something.

 

I think so yes. I'd consider changing everything around slightly different if you feel the need for a change. F12 for 812 and what ever you feel can replace the GT3RS. I have not connected with the GT3RS. I just don't find it that special. I'm more entertained by a GT4. If you don't connect with the GT3RS I don't think you will be happy with the Pista as your only exotic. It's an awesome car, but I think you will miss the split personality aspect of the F12 for both the relaxed cruise and spirited drive. If only one Ferrari should be in my possession it would be the 812, because that car bridges the gap between sportscar and GT in a way that defies logic.
812 and Scud if possible, or even better 812 and Pista. But Pista alone? Nah. Too noisy and barebones for proper comfort.

People are different, but that's my take on it based on the Pista Spider viewpoint

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I don't think there is any single supercar on the planet which ticks all the boxes..Ideally you a minimum of two for different moods as i have..I currently have a 991.2GT3 RS WP alongside a 488GTB, both hugely exciting however in different ways..I've come to the conclusion that i need one limited edition hard core supercar from either Ferrari or Porsche and another more supple road friendly supercar ..
An RS complements a 488 beautifully however if i changed the RS for a 992 Turbo S then i'd need a Pista to offer the hard core thrills..A Porsche and a Ferrari alongside in the garage is a wonderful sight and one i hope i can maintain well into very old age.

 

Actually if you changed the gt3rs for a Pista you'd then need a Gt2rs. The Pista replaces the 488 as a much better sorted road car sans the sound deadening....and glove box....and arm rest lol. Seriously though. If you're swapping out a gt3rs.2 for a Pista - which would be a nice move btw - you will miss the GT feel which the Porsche has. So this is where the 2rs comes into play as you step the GT car experience up a few notches in the acceleration dept. The only dilemma you will have then, is you will start thinking of three cars. Which is perfectly fine btw. As is 4 or 5 or 6 etc. More cars = good.

 

Hence lies the problem..Trouble is i have to stick to my spending budget on these toys otherwise i'd be doing exactly what you suggest.

 

Quite a few "horses for courses" being discussed; I personally have owned or driven most in the discussion, but is seems Pazzo009 is seeking versatility for the street, as already owns another, track-day car. By coincidence, I just drove my 458SA down to the dealer to drive my new Pista Piloti yesterday. To me it felt like a luxury Challenge car, almost shockingly comfortable and intuitive - massive evolution from the 430 Scud or 458SA. While I respect the GT3RS for track day use (seems to stand up best to the abuse), I don't enjoy driving it on the street - just too harsh (so seems like the odd man out here). Much like the GT2RS, the Pista is perhaps a perfect mix of performance and luxury, with existing builds on the market that most any wife would want to travel in. As for the V12s, it is really a GT vs. sports car experience, with me preferring the latter. The 575M was almost truck-like and while the 812 has finally evolved to delivering the confidence and feel of a smaller car, I never thought the F12 made that leap.

 

Post a pic of your Piloti if you have time.

 

Just a quick note to everyone, if you are driving these cars and wondering if it could be a little more nimble- maybe it can! Have your dealer/ a good independent/ perform a proper alignment. Many of these cars come from a distance and the alignment can slip out. My Pista and 812 are transformed after alignment. Far far less expensive than getting an entirely new car! Also if your shop knows you, they can tweak it slightly to your taste.


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Seems to be a very valid and fair observation no discredit to you or your beautiful collection. But that has me thinking about the climate in Europe as it relates to sound and noise regulation if your 3RS was stock and elicited a reaction other than ecstasy


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Pista is the way to go. However, if you already have a dedicated track car and love the F12, you might appreciate the GT/sports car feel and sound of 812 more. You might also want to consider your F12 over the M5. Pista is an awesome car but you seem to appreciate the V12 sound more. When taking my wife out to dinner I take my 812. It's more roomy and still super sporty with more creature comforts inside. With Pista you give up a few nonessential things like glove compartment and get one of the greatest chassis in the car world. So the answer is clear as mud. Best to test drive them when you can.