The issue here is intellectual property. Intellectual property rights can be bought, but they are not allowed to be shared (in F1). A team can have its car or parts of its car designed and fabricated by someone else, that's allowed by the FIA. For instance, Haas didn't design its chassis and body work, Dalarra did, but the intellectual property rights belong to Haas that paid for it. Mercedes may have sold the intellectual property rights of its 2019 car to Racing Point, and that may be legal under FIA rules, I don't know. Also RP designers may have worked from "borrowed" MB drawings, changed a few dimensions here and there, and get away with it. I hope that Racing Points have all the documents ready to defend their case, drawings, calculations, moulds, etc ... It's very difficult to prove someone copies you; the Chinese are very good at it (case of Land Rover against Land Wind or MINI against Lifan).
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/150550/why-racing-point-brake-ducts-are-key-to-renault-protest ---You could surmise that Renault is taking a punt in assuming that the ducts are identical internally, or too similar for it to be a coincidence, but the FIA could well determine that they are sufficiently different. "What we're saying is, we accept it's possible to copy external geometries from pictures," Budkowski said. "We don't think it's possible to copy internal geometries. Furthermore, we know that transfers of information on brake ducts were allowed last year. But it's not allowed to use this information on your race car this year. "These parts were not listed last year, and they're listed this year, so you could exchange information last year, but you cannot use this information on your race car this year. So if they've used information from the Mercedes '19 car that they received, we contend that this is illegal. "It's for the FIA to determine this. But what is clear is that any part that is listed needs to be your own proprietary design. The regulations are clear, not only do you have to design it yourself, but you can't outsource it to another competitor. "And if a competitor designs it, it retains exclusive rights to use it. So there's no way you can base your design on someone else's without breaching the regulations." Does Renault believe that other elements of the car break the listed parts rules? "We have strong, strong suspicions, if not conviction, that these parts are a design from another competitor," Budkowski said. "Whether that's the case for the other parts, again, it's for the FIA to determine. "If the FIA finds that the brake ducts are the same geometry or the based on the same geometry, then I would hope they would start checking other parts as well, if they haven't done so already." Clearly this is an issue that has a huge significance for F1. The FIA has been pushing for a move towards shared and common parts with the 2022 regulations - and faced resistance in some areas even when the elements concerned didn't make the car go faster. However aero remains the key aspect of performance that teams want to keep free, on the basis that you should do your own R&D and not be able to buy performance. Meanwhile the move to the very different 2022 rules comes amid the cost cap and a further tightening of restrictions on wind tunnel and CFD usage. Any close co-operation between partner teams, who might be deemed to mutually benefit from pursuing a parallel development path, will be viewed with some suspicion by others. Racing Point reacted strongly to Renault's claims today, noting that the protest is "misconceived and poorly informed", and stressing that "any and all suggestion of wrongdoing is firmly rejected and the team will take all steps necessary to ensure the correct application of the regulations to the facts." Racing Point's real problem is that it has made such a big step with its overall package that it has not just rattled the cages of traditional rivals like Renault and McLaren, but of Red Bull and Ferrari as well. This will be a fascinating test case...----
More than anything else, I think this is exactly what irritates them. If it was Haas or Williams doing it, but staying at the bottom of the league, probably no one would object.
If Haas or Williams did that, then Alfa Romeo would be the one protesting, everybody has their own fight. I suppose that Renault already knows that this is not going anywhere because, if true, it would put Mercedes and FIA in trouble. But at least airing this **** in public will keep them honest for next year.
you think Alfa would want to run a copy of this years Ferrari? or that Ferrari would drop the pride and copy Alfa? really though, maybe they should. it's no good when one team dominates and so many teams fail to be somewhat competitive
What if you bought a camera, took lots and lots of pictures, took them back and had a 3D analyser create the 3D blueprints? Is that against the "letter" of the rules? As far as IP goes in business circles, it is either patented, copyrighted, kept secret; or the competition can use it.
I love this. Clone ‘em up says Marko! As predicted - build a Benz to win lol https://www.planetf1.com/news/alphatauri-do-a-racing-point/
Brawn has this to offer on Clone Point vs F1/FIA-- Formula 1 managing director of motorsport Ross Brawn believes the current protest against Racing Point will be a "tricky problem" for the FIA to resolve. Racing Point is currently facing scrutiny over the legality over its RP20 car following protests by Renault at each of the last two races. Racing Point has openly admitted it based the design of its car on the 2019 Mercedes W10 by using photographs, but stresses it remains within the regulations. Writing in his post-race column, Brawn explained how copying other teams was "standard" in F1, having previously done so himself in his time as a team technical chief. "My view is copying in Formula 1 is standard," Brawn said. "Every team has, in normal times, digital photographers in the pit lane out there taking thousands of photos of every car for analysis, with a view of copying the best ideas. We used to give our photographers a shopping list. PLUS: Why F1 has always been a "copying championship" "Racing Point have just taken it to the next stage and done a more thorough job. There is not a single team in this paddock which has not copied something from another. "I'd ask every Technical Director in the paddock to raise their hand if they haven't copied someone else. You won't see any hands. I have certainly copied others." Renault's protest against Racing Point has focused on the brake ducts used on the RP20 car, which is argues has copied the Mercedes design. Racing Point was permitted to use the 2019 Mercedes brake ducts last year when they were a listed part, but then had to design its own version for this year after a change in the rules. Team principal Otmar Szafnauer said over the weekend it was "impossible" for the brake ducts to be illegal, and that he has "no concerns whatsoever" over their legality. Brawn said that it could be difficult for the Racing Point designers to dismiss any knowledge they had of the Mercedes part when making their own version. "Last year, Racing Point had access to, and could use, 2019-spec Mercedes brake ducts because they were not a listed part. This year, brake ducts are listed parts, so you have to design your own," Brawn explained. "However, Racing Point cannot forget the knowledge they acquired using the 2019 Mercedes brake ducts. "I think it is illogical to think they can wipe their memory banks. It is a tricky problem and one for the FIA experts to resolve." The FIA is set to rule on the matter ahead of next week's British Grand Prix. https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/150735/brawn-racing-point-protest-tricky-problem-for-fia
I remember signing employment agreements that if taken literally to the extreme could be interpreted to mean that if a newly hired employee is taught to speak then when they leave the company they have to forget how to speak!
Well, we´ll have to believe FIA and suppose that somewhere at the RP factory are blueprints of the car when it was in development instead of a copy-paste of complete Mercedes designs. I don´t thing the issue can go any further than that.
In the old days, taking photos and reverse engineering was still a bit of an art form. Today, with the sensors and dot projectors in modern cameras, it is so easy, you forget how advanced the tech has become. Face ID for Apple uses 30K dots and infrared projected from the camera to build a mathematical model of your face to confirm it's you. Similar (and more advanced) systems can turn a quick photo into a 3D model easily. Some systems will also use their logic functions to fill in missing areas, allow you to "see" the back or obverse side of irregular shapes, etc. It's so easy to do, and tough to both prove or defend against, perhaps this will help someone think about simplifying F1 instead of adding even more layers of complexity to the machines.
I don't mind tbh. All drivers in equal equipment duking it out from start to finish sounds way more entertaining than this nonsense we're watching right now...
RP worked with the FIA back in March and got all approved. That's why they are not worried now. Renault is a bit late to the party.
If copying is legal and can’t be really legislated against and with the budget cap, I can see a top team using all its resources to develop the internals and offloading their best aerodynamicists to the B team who buy the internals and develop the aero for both.
I always admired Brawn but what a ton of bullsheet to say as an engineer. No way you can copy suspension design or even the floor from photos.
Actually, there is: If you take a number of photos (say 50) from a number of angles (50 again), there are 2D->3D algorithms that can take those pictures and print out blueprints to a couple (5) thous in precision (0.005"). Given an entire season, you can compare the photos/blueprints one day to the next and watch the teams sort out ride height, and if you are clever, even spring rates. It is only what you cannot see/photograph that limits your ability to copy. As to the brake ducts, since these are aero devices and copying, and that aero is why passing does not happen, why not just ban the brake hubs and go back to disk on hub with air scoop suspension systems (like 1990s)?
You can't share aero and bodywork with other team. At best, the B team could clone the A team aero from the previous season.
Not necessarily. That was the case with Racing . this year but they could have just as well been given this year’s Merc’s designs and claim they copied and scribbled them on their own after presentation pics and testing for example
