430 - Crankshaft gone | FerrariChat

430 Crankshaft gone

Discussion in '360/430' started by 24000rpm, Jul 6, 2020.

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  1. 24000rpm

    24000rpm F1 Rookie

    well, asking for a friend. i mean, for real, asking for a friend. Not my car.

    The car got major oil problem and the crankshaft was toast, some con rod pin's diameters are off by 0.08mm,, according to the service manual, its no longer salvageable.


    So I was wondering if buying a new crankshaft is the only way to go. The crankshaft is very very expensive like not a lot less than $10,000.

    In other marques, we can use +0.1, +0.2 bearings to get them into specs, but alas, ferrari doesn't have any of these kind of bearings.

    Also in the service manual, it says
    Nitriding depth (measured at HV=525) = 0.3 - 0.35 mm. Does this mean the maximum grinding depth is less than 0.3mm? Over that, we'll have a different material?
     
  2. imahorse

    imahorse F1 Rookie
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    Nov 25, 2017
    2,646
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    Dustin
    I have seen short blocks on Ebay for half of that. That could be a better option. Call a few suppliers and see what they have. No sense in paying 10k for a crank when you can get a whole engine for that price.

    Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
     
  3. one4torque

    one4torque F1 Veteran
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    May 20, 2018
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    Agree with above..... get a shortblock or long block.....
     
  4. MRY

    MRY Formula Junior

    May 14, 2015
    384
    Monterey Peninsula
    EBay has complete short and long engines for $10k

    Also dig a little with the parts houses, because the Maserati engines are from the same family and may have applications where you can re-bush the rods.

    It would not surprise me if the Ferrari/Maserati parts are the same but with more availability on the Maserati side as they produced more than the Ferrari side.

    For example, you can get a complete Maserati 4.3 engine on FLEEbay for $4k.

    However, easiest would probably be a used short block with a tested good crank, and rebuild the original motor and keep the rest as a spare or part it out if you have the time and patience to recoup unused parts cost


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  5. mwstewart

    mwstewart F1 Rookie

    Feb 5, 2014
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    Mark
    10k? Have Ferrari put up the price significantly? Let me check...
     
  6. mwstewart

    mwstewart F1 Rookie

    Feb 5, 2014
    2,625
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    Mark
    No, they haven't: £4,696.85 / $5,867.52 ex. Tax.
     
  7. 24000rpm

    24000rpm F1 Rookie

    it was 5000 British pound. translating to 6k USD, then add tarrif and shipping

    anyway, even if it is 5k pounds, it is still a lot

     
  8. 24000rpm

    24000rpm F1 Rookie

    yea, its still a lot

     
  9. mwstewart

    mwstewart F1 Rookie

    Feb 5, 2014
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    Actually I don't think that's too bad for a flat plane V8 crank and given the original purchase price of the car, but if you want a cheaper option you have several options:

    1) Take the risk on a used engine. It's a bit of a lottery though;
    2) Have yours re-ground and re-nitrided (yes it's OK);
    3) Contact somebody who makes steel cranks. I recently had a completely bespoke crank made for a long-stroke 4 cyl application and it was £1500 / $1800.

    Have you checked the rest of the engine? Lifter bores, cam journals, bore ovality etc... it may be much more than just the mains and small ends...
     
    EastMemphis likes this.
  10. 24000rpm

    24000rpm F1 Rookie

    other parts of the engine were taken care of, just bearings and nothing else were actually need replacing.

    yea, now I think we need to find a re-nitriding company in China.

     
    mwstewart likes this.
  11. 24000rpm

    24000rpm F1 Rookie

    wait, are you saying the 430 crank isn't steel??

     
  12. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
    5,828
    Isle of man- uk
    The nitriding is a hardening coat- if you can recover the bearing surface by grinding and still have a reasonable hard coat left you just might be able to use it. Just depends how much you have to remove, but can you get O/Size bearings.
    For the crank to be at a fail state, then you must have a lot more damage- the engine is going to need a full rebuild- a low miles swap is going to be a cheaper option i think
     
  13. 24000rpm

    24000rpm F1 Rookie

    the problem is, there's no over sized bearing , at least not sold by ferrari

     
  14. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
    5,828
    Isle of man- uk
    What caused the failure ? Takes a lot of abuse to do that, how many miles ?
     
  15. 24000rpm

    24000rpm F1 Rookie

    bootleg engine oil. rampant in China.

     
  16. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
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    Nov 29, 2001
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    Mitchell Le
    What? Fake engine oil?

    20 years ago, I used to know a guy who made bearings. If that service is still available, it would be less expensive than a new crank. But crank work of any kind is still expensive.
     
  17. 24000rpm

    24000rpm F1 Rookie

    yes, fake engine oil. Its not the first engine i've seen damaged due to bad oil in China.

    I am so concerned about the rampant fake oil in china I started to import redline oils from calfornia myself already. Double the price I could have locally but guaranteed to be genuine.




     
  18. 24000rpm

    24000rpm F1 Rookie

    im also concerned about crank balance if we grind too much off it, for example, 0.5mm, which means the hardening surface's gone already anyways( 0.3mm depth of nitriding hardening)

     
  19. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
    5,828
    Isle of man- uk
    2 used running engines at Eurospares @ appox £23 000 - got to be a cheaper option
     
  20. RedNeck

    RedNeck F1 Veteran
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    Jul 8, 2016
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    That's just insane to me. It's definitely worth it to import, small price to pay for peace of mind and risk of losing an engine.
     
  21. blkfxstc

    blkfxstc Formula Junior
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    Nov 30, 2016
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    Eric
    You can nitride again if needed (assuming you can find the right bearings), contact a local heat treater who does this. The base material is steel and will have a lower hardness below the nitride layer. Good luck!
     
    24000rpm likes this.
  22. Salsero

    Salsero Karting

    Oct 6, 2006
    198
    MY
    Full Name:
    Rezal
    HolyF. It was around £1,092 back in 2011 (I double checked the invoice to be sure!). Amazing what 8+ years does (to be fair, in 2011, the F430 was just fresh from the last production).
     
    mwstewart likes this.
  23. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
    5,828
    Isle of man- uk
    A new engine was about 25 k, now double that
     

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