Anyone Else Thinking About Getting the New 2021 MC20???

I know they're working on a new GT but they might still be working on an Alfieri, I hope they are. Maybe it's delayed due to typical Italian stuff plus wanting to make a hybrid out of it.

Electric powertrains or at least hybrids are the future right now, if Maserati don't jump on board they'll die. Now for my fun/weekend/sports car I don't really want that but for a daily I have zero issues with it. My daily driver is electric and honestly I don't really want to go back to ICE. If done properly, a hybrid powertrain isn't really an issue in a sports car.

 

Would you also refer the Ferrari 488 to the lousy Ferrari 208GTB as both had turbo engines.....??
Maserati`s ol`Biturbo-stuff is history now, thanks God!
The new powerplant his promising. Period! But you can`t sell the best engine when the rest does not look stunning! I can only hope that they get the design of the car right and don`t bring us a bigger Alfa 4C clone!

 

What? This post makes no sense to me?
My criticism is that whether the ICE is viable enough to bet the farm on it? Never mind the F1 aspirations which are quite dubious given the resources.
Maserati doesn't as yet have a reputation for reliable cutting edge technology. I do like their current cars. It hasn't been cutting edge for 3 decades or more save for the MC12 and that technology never made it to the street cars.
I hope this is a clean breakaway from Ferrari and something unique that they offer but I think it's not unreasonable to be dubious given the history since the last time they were in F1.

Boralogist ... crawl back under the couch.

 

Wider, sure. Longer, definitely. Taller, let's hope not!

 

Remember...I only promised to ignore you IF you take your meds and behave!

 

You wrote: "So the Biturbo lives yet again!" clearly (for me!) refering to the ol`Biturbo/DeTomaso years. But to refer the old engine layout with the new one is without sense. Its the same as when you refer the old bad Ferrari 208GTB (Turbo) engine with the new technology in the 488.
I am pretty sure that the new engine will be quite advanced. Yes, I agree with you and hope it will be reliable as well. But engine design today is mainly computer work and the testing procedure is much tougher and precise than in the ol`days of the notorious Biturbo-aera with De Tomaso.

 

No it wasn't for you. I said the same thing when they came out with the current set ofV6 engine they use in the Ghibli and Levante.
It's a sarcastic Joke . Do I need to get out the the blackboard? Apparently I do ...

Listening to him and I had to put on the close caption it sounds like there are doing some very complex things and I expect that this will not be a fuss free engine.
Over here Lincoln has also gone to a complex V6 with lots of power and torque also utilizing complex technology and it's a Biturbo as well. These engines replaced their old fashioned push rod v8 which was a very reliable, long lived, simple engine much like the 454 in my old Suburban. They had to in order to meet CAFE standards as well as the tightening emissions control. Some people have been having issues with these engines. I'm not going to debate the merits of Ford/lincoln engines vs Maserati engines except to point out that they have very similar government regulations to meet and with the ICE that's making all engineers use much more complex solutions = fussy typically.

 

I think Maserati cheats a little with the claim that the engine is new and a complete in-house development. I strongly suspect that Nettuno is based on the Ferrari F154 V6 and more or less only the intake system was developed new by Maserati.

This gives me the confidence that the engine will work...

 

A very interesting analysis of the origin of the Nettuno engine, design and contributors:
https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/car-technology/a33078911/maserati-nettuno-v6-part-sharing/

 

Even back in the vintage years there was so much jumping ship to the other side or company. If you like one Italian brand you have to like the other's as well. One note, back in the early years up until the 1960's Maserati was much more likely to use newer technology than Ferrari. The old man, MR. Ferrari was stuck in his ways. Maserati on the other hand was always using new ideas.

 

Yes a very detailed article which exposes how many technicians move from company to company but ... I don't think they can take unique technology of one maker to the next WO permission. So it looks to me like Ferrari, Alfa and Maserati are still collaborating and that makes a lot of sense considering who they compete against namely the Germans. But it also probably means the old never allowed to surpass Ferrari rule will remain in effect.

I thought the article was a bit snarky when they point out the same AC compressor is being used ... Trying too hard I think.

 

Signore Cozza also explained the legendary rivalry between the two major manufacturers Maserati and Ferrari in the 50s as follows: "This is how it seemed at the time: Maserati belonged to Modena and Ferrari, in our minds, was practically in Stockholm! There were 20 of us students in the vocational school. Ten of them started working for Maserati when they finished and the other ten from south of Modena went to Maranello to work for Ferrari. This drew an invisible line through the city which made it inconceivable for Maserati employees to assemble a Ferrari. If someone had said to us back then that we would one day work for Ferrari, we would have said they were crazy," he explained.

Nice article on the ZF homepage: https://www.zf.com/site/magazine/en/articles_13952.html

 

Very, very nice. Thanks for the link for us oldtimers ...

 

Remember, men age like wine, they get better and better.

 

In 2013 an interesting article about Paolo Martinelli, then Head of the Maserati Powertrain Development, was available on the Maserati homepage. Also very exciting to read. And it's striking; Maserati has always claimed to develop its own engines. Everyone knows that the 3.8 litre V8 tt in the Quattroporte VI is derived from the Ferrari F154.

It's also exciting to read how Martinelli optimised the V8 from the Granturismo.

"THE ROAR OF A MASERATI ENGINE IS SOMETHING WE COULD NEVER LOSE.
(Paolo Martinelli, Head of the Maserati Powertrain Development. Before undertaking this role, Martinelli spent nearly thirty years with Ferrari, eventually as the Head of the Engine Department for the Formula 1 team across the era of Michael Schumacher’s world championships. Production of the new Maserati engines will be performed by Ferrari in Maranello.)

It may seem strange but it is not enough for Maserati to produce engines that are the most powerful, high-performing and ‘musical’ in the world. The recent objectives of the Powertrain Maserati department, overseen by engineer Paolo Martinelli, have been geared towards even more energy-efficient engines. These power units are high performing but have notably lower consumption levels and emissions.

“It is a difficult challenge but one that excites me”, smiled Martinelli. Martinelli started by making significant modifications to the 4.7 litre V8 from the Maserati GranTurismo MC Stradale, changes that were then introduced to the engines from the GranTurismo Sport, GranCabrio and GranCabrio Sport.

Many of the improvements to the original engine from the GranTurismo range derive from the ‘low friction’ programme. As the tag suggests, the modifications made were to reduce friction, including the revision of the oil sump fluid dynamics courtesy of the addition of mono-directional valves. Another introduction was the use of special Diamond Like Carbon (DLC) to coat the camshaft tappets and lobes, a change that significantly improved the smooth running of mechanical parts, limiting energy loss.

Even the exhaust system pressure was reduced, again upping efficiency: “With less pressure in the exhaust system”, outlined Martinelli, “the distinctive Maserati sound is preserved but with the consumption of much less energy. The roar of a Maserati engine is something we could never lose”. To conclude, an enhanced injection set up and dedicated mapping have optimised the combustion. This brings higher power output but reduced consumption CO2 emissions.

Seeking constant improvements, Maserati’s future aim to bring down its cars’ carbon footprint while maintaining their true sporty nature is even more ambitious: “In terms of engine efficiency, we will not be satisfied with 1-2%. In time, in five to ten years, we want ten times as much”, wrapped up a confident Martinelli.

An important step in this direction has already been taken with the innovative twin turbo engine fitted to the new Quattroporte. It is a technological gem in terms of efficiency and performance.

A HUNDRED YEARS OF ENGINE DESIGN IN ONE V8

For Maserati, creating a new engine is a unique event, one that brings Italy’s legendary “Motor Valley” back to life. And the new, original Twin Turbo V8 used on the Quattroporte is no exception.

Some engines have a special quality that defines their character much better than their power and torque data or any other technical specifications could ever do: their origins. If an engine is developed in that area of Italy’s Emilia Romagna region, and more precisely in the provinces of Modena and Bologna, known as “Motor Valley”, it is safe to say that it will be a unique piece of engineering with extraordinary characteristics.

Obviously, it is not the weather that makes an engine from “Motor Valley” so special - although this is responsible for some of the area’s wonderful food products - but rather the passionate enthusiasm of the men who firstly conceive it, then design it and finally assemble it, adopting the same modus operandi as the craftsmen who built the foundations of the Valley in the early Twentieth Century, ensuring the success of some of the world’s leading automotive constructors: from the Maserati brothers to Enzo Ferrari and Ferruccio Lamborghini.

Men whose legacy is so immense that it has made the whole region a symbol of excellence in engine design. It was on this boundless know-how that the engineer Paolo Martinelli - Modena born and bred, with a splendid F1 past behind him, head of Maserati's Powertrain Department since 2011 - drew unstintingly to develop the new-generation Twin Turbo V8 installed on the Quattroporte. An engine with a strong identity, entirely developed and designed by Maserati in Modena and built at the Ferrari plant at Maranello.

For Maserati, with its constant commitment to leading-edge innovation in engine design, this eight-cylinder unit represents a real technological revolution. Like the famed family of V8 engines used on the GranTurismo and GranCabrio range, which have undergone further improvements recently and which are still at the cutting edge, this original engine has a surfeit of sophisticated design solutions, enabling it to set new records in terms of performance and efficiency.

Around the V90 layout, the Maserati engineers have built a 3.8 litre engine capable of generating a power of 530 HP at 6,800 rpm and a torque of 710 Nm at between 2,000 and 3,500 rpm. As a result, the new unit delivers specific power and torque of 139 HP/litre and 171 Nm/litre respectively, well above the averages for the category. Amazing figures that enable the Quattroporte to accelerate from 0 to 100 km/h in just 4.7 seconds and pass the 300 km/h threshold with ease, with a top speed of 307 km/h. An achievement that makes the new sedan the second fastest Maserati of all time, second only to the muscular MC12 with V12 engine. In addition, with 95% of the torque already available at less than 1,600 rpm, the Quattroporte's V8 combines smooth running and outstanding performance at any engine speed with a special focus on fuel consumption and emissions."

 

And its for sure the basic layout and stronger versions will follow.

 

Some of the Maserati mechanics changed left Maserati when they closed the race department in 1957. Giulio Borsari, for example. He worked for Scuderia Centro Sud and later changed to Ferrari.

 

....but made the Ghibli I with very old fashioned rear axle while Ferrari came out with the fantastic 275GTB that had the much more modern independent suspension. Maserati was always more conservative than other manufacturers. The big blow of modern stuff came from Citroen who wanted to get their hydraulic system into Maserati. But this was not the idea of the factory itself.

 

I always had the idea that the Citroen hydraulics were chosen in order to get rid of the need for a vacuum booster in the trunk area, thus making the car a true mid engine GT with a usable trunk for trips, unlike any of the Bora's contemporaries and that using the hydraulics gave the Bora a movable pedal assembly so that the trunk could be made functional within the size parameters drawn by Giugiaro and still permit a range of people to fit in the driver's seat. Maybe my memory is faulty but didn't Marc Sonnery provide insight as to the choice of the Citroen hydraulic system being chosen by Maserati rather than be pushed on them by Citroen. I apologize up front if my recollection is wrong.

 

Walter you are always jumping on your soap box like a self appointed drill sergeant yelling excitedly at other posters as if they were rookie troops when you feel someone is wrong but here YOU ARE WRONG.

I respect your books so don't ignore mine: In my 160000 words of interviews in Maserati the Citroen years 1968-1975 several interviewees such as Malleret, Drieux, Lecesne, Cozza, Grandi, Martinelli, Azzardi explained that Pierre Bercot was very protective of Maserati's integrity, he mandated that Citroen would not interfere, not dilute the essence of the Modenese company. Therefore he placed only four people in Modena and forbid any other Citroen directors to interfere. Visits were allowed, for example my father when he ran Citroen Portugal had been scheduled to go there for a tour but his timetable could not be adapted. However no technical solutions were EVER imposed by Citroen upon Maserati.

It was Giulio Alfieri, head engineer who, feeling that normal brakes were becoming unsatisfactory in the face of ever more powerful engines, faster cars, autostradas, wanted to try the Citroen brakes because they are very powerful and do not fade.

Thus the small R & D department experimented for the very first time on Guy Malleret's company car: an Indy which was fitted with the system. The results were very positive and so they were adopted.
Then any and all hydraulic decisions were taken by Alfieri and vetted by Bercot via Malleret. I do feel that brakes, clutch and steering were judicious (I am mixing Bora and Khamsin here) but pedal box, headlights and seats being activated by hydraulics was a bit over the top...but Alfieri was showboating a bit.

It is important when new research brings out facts to not fall back on old beliefs, like virtual chewing gum stuck under a shoe, dating from when there was no information.

 

+1
Let's not forget that Alfieri loved Citroen hydraulics so much his daily driver was a DS!

 

Isn't that telling?
Malleret chooses an Indy and Alfieri goes for a DS.
Either could have chosen anything they wanted! It was this genuine respect/synergy which gave us the Bora and the Khamsin.
Amazing!

 

Good genes + good education = handsome smart balanced human or automotive children

 

The biggest problem with these two models was market timing. But that was true for all exotics back then. Maserati was very vulnerable at the time.

Then afterwards in the 1980s till the present day the Citroen system got/gets very bad reviews from many because of how it performed when compared with the other exotics of that era i.e. the touchy nature of the brakes at slower speeds. Much of that is because transitioning from a standard braking system in the exotic performance genre to those two Maseratis was quite a shock. The steering even more so. Today there are similar issues with modern car's braking and steering systems. Especially if you rent cars a lot. Some of them are just horrid they're so sensitive. I think it's getting better and as Ivan recently pointed out the LHM fluid has decided advantages.

I remember once sliding all four ties in a quick (not so quick actually) stopping requirement on a fog drenched street in my Bora in SF one day. Today we have ABS. My Ghibli II race car retains it's Bosch 3 channel ABS system and that saved my ass once as a 355 Challenge was trying to out drag me down the long straight to turn one at Summit Point in WV. The 355 challenge had the ABS removed. He and an instructor went straight off in a cloud of black smoke. He got out of my way just in time!
I made the turn just fine with a proper line.

I did the same thing to a few M3s at that same track but that was more do to drivers with a lot of bravado, very little brains and not nearly enough skill or experience. Those all had ABS.
Earlier in the drivers meeting they were complaining about an old man in a Yellow Maserati being so slow on the warm up laps. When I saw them later in the pits looking over their damage I asked them if they'd broken very much. : The silence was delicious ...

I never had a problem with the Bora's brakes at the track or at high speed or on the open road.

 

Maybe you two should get a room ... LOL