Seb out of SF for 2021 | Page 15 | FerrariChat

Seb out of SF for 2021

Discussion in 'F1' started by 11506apollo, May 11, 2020.

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  1. DF1

    DF1 Two Time F1 World Champ

    Mercedes are not going anywhere lol. The team is not at all a drain on resources and now costs for future value are lower.
     
  2. DF1

    DF1 Two Time F1 World Champ

  3. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jun 3, 2006
    25,447
    Sure, but it's up to the opposition to catch up, and so far they are not doing it.

    Mercedes is the best team of this decade: best organisation, best technical team, best management, best drivers.
    Mercedes has set the standard in F1; you need stability, continuity, efficiency and good working atmosphere.

    Compared to that, Ferrari is in a state of permanent nervous breakdown for the last decade.
    I cannot see any sign of improvement.

    Red Bull is second best team, and I can see them taking over from Mercedes if they leave.
    But RB is dependent from an engine supplier, and I am not sure the atmosphere is that good in the Red Bull organisation.
     
    Nuvolari likes this.
  4. jpalmito

    jpalmito F1 Veteran

    Jun 5, 2009
    7,281
    Le caylar (France)
    Full Name:
    mathieu Jeantet
    Now Honda financial investment is huge.
    Red Bull should be a real and consistent threat for Mercedes this year
     
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  5. furmano

    furmano Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Jul 22, 2004
    31,905
    Colorado
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    Furman
    Totally agree.

    Scuderia Ferrari is not in a good place and it comes down to bad leadership, in the boardroom, in the garage. Ultimately, Ferrari failed Seb, not the other way around.

    The reduction for 2021 and the possibility of a new formula in 2022 will give them the space to reset and renew. Hope springs eternal.

    -F
     
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  6. Etcetera

    Etcetera Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Dec 7, 2003
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    C9H8O4
    So does disappointment. :(
     
  7. DF1

    DF1 Two Time F1 World Champ

    Seb failed. Mistakes are not team only if you are alone and the driver. Both failed consistently as a team
     
  8. DF1

    DF1 Two Time F1 World Champ

    https://www.autosport.com/f1/feature/10283/ferrari-long-history-of-wrecked-driver-relationships

    Ferrari's long history of wrecked driver relationships
    It takes a special talent to hire some of the greatest drivers of their generation and then either alienate them completely or give up on them and force them out. But Ferrari has been doing it since the dawn of the world championship, argues STUART CODLING

    A highly sagacious individual - formerly on the staff of this very magazine, in fact - once said to me, "You know, the problem with Ron Dennis is that he always falls out with his best drivers..." And indeed, let's take a brisk roll-call of handy pilots who've said "do one, Ron" over the years: Niki Lauda, Alain Prost, Ayrton Senna, Mika Hakkinen, David Coulthard, Fernando Alonso, Lewis Hamilton...

    But those fall-outs were generally transacted behind closed doors, and were predominantly a result of the McLaren boss having an occasional tendency to be gauche. On-track performance - or the lack thereof - seldom came into the equation. Quite the opposite: the majority of those drivers departed with at least one world championship courtesy of Woking machinery.

    Ferrari, on the other hand, has a rich history of reverse alchemy - of turning partnerships freighted with promise into a soap opera of frustrations and disappointments. You could argue it's been happening since the early days of the world championship itself, when Alberto Ascari fell out with Enzo Ferrari over his salary and slung his hook.


    The tradition has continued down the years, no matter who happens to hold the Scuderia's reins: John Surtees, Lauda, Prost, Michael Schumacher, Kimi Raikkonen, Alonso and most recently Sebastian Vettel have all jumped or been pushed. These are just the high-profile names.

    It's pretty clear from Vettel's tale of diminishing returns that some responsibility for his failure to bring the world title to Maranello resides with Ferrari. The Scuderia's peculiar ability to shoot itself in the corporate foot is almost maddening.

    In the past decade and a half alone we've had the tawdry spectacle of Schumacher being pushed into early retirement to make way for Raikkonen, who was then paid off to leave a year early to furnish a vacancy for Alonso, who then took his leave after one screaming match too many during the Year Of The Three Team Principals.

    There's more than one common thread in this narrative, beyond sub-optimal on-track performance. It's a blend of short-sightedness and internal politics.

    Luca di Montezemolo decided that Schumacher was yesterday's man and Raikkonen was a better fit for the future (millennials might well describe the timing of the press release announcing Michael's retirement - mid-way through the 2006 Italian Grand Prix - as "****** move"). Montezemolo moving-and-shaking was also the reason for Raikkonen being elbowed out - and, indeed, Luca also lubricated the wheels for Alonso's early departure.

    Too often at Maranello the desired outcomes are skewed by the need to fight fires: rumblings from senior management in the Fiat empire, pressure from the Italian media. Ditching a driver who is perceived to have under-performed, or who is seen to be demotivating the team by complaining too much, is a cheap way of buying time and positive PR.

    Yet the irony with the Vettel situation is that he was on a sticky wicket from the minute he arrived: Montezemolo was in the process of being shunted aside even as he tied up the deal to bring Vettel to Ferrari. For once, a high-profile recruitment wasn't enough to save Luca's career.

    And that meant - for all the grazie ragazzi over the next couple of seasons - Vettel arrived in an environment that was already potentially hostile, for he was the previous regime's hire. New chief Sergio Marchionne and his yes-man, Maurizio Arrivabene, immediately began spinning against him. In hindsight, it's a surprise Vettel lasted this long...
     
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  9. DeSoto

    DeSoto F1 Veteran

    Nov 26, 2003
    7,481
    I can't believe how much whitening Vettel's career is getting, from media, Bernie... In the above article, not a single mention of Vettel cock ups, his colossal salary and his faster newbie team mate. Everything is Ferrari's fault.
     
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  10. DF1

    DF1 Two Time F1 World Champ

    Agree. Alone in the cockpit he owns the spin, the off, the contact with other cars. Those were more than enough to lose titles the team and Vettel should have won. He is a good F1 driver. He is not great....not at all. He has been exposed and Ferrari knew he was much slower than FA overall. He has weak race craft in comparison. He had a good car on 2 season's to win. Close and tight quarters, but had he driven with fewer errors and no temper, he could have won WDC. They can 'whiten' it all they want. The video evidence and timing of the errors are easily assessed. They are not hidden and he cannot hide from this.
     
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  11. ingegnere

    ingegnere F1 Veteran
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    Sep 12, 2004
    5,222
    Montreal
    +1, very well put!

    This story is typical of the British press in general and Autosport specifically, unfortunately, and I would bet no other country’s press is defending Vettel right now, not even Germany. The plain fact is that no other team is falling over itself to sign up the “amazing” Vettel, because they know his true worth.

    But this same Autosport that called out his hot-headedness on various occasions—see vs. St-Lewis in Baku, Montreal podium, radio messages, etc.—or ridiculed his self-afflicted screw-ups—this time to the benefit of St-Lewis—is now choosing to blame Ferrari as this is a (the?) favorite target of theirs. It aims to put Ferrari under a bad light which appeals to the majority of their readership and perpetuates in their mind the lack of competence in the (Italian) team. A team that would have probably won a championship or two in this Mercedes era were it not for, precisely, the subject of their new-found devotion.
     
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  12. ingegnere

    ingegnere F1 Veteran
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    Sep 12, 2004
    5,222
    Montreal
    What I’m really curious to see (hear?) now that Vettel is unchained from his Ferrari commitments going forward is his comments on the team and specifically what he’ll say about how they were operating the fuel system.

    I could imagine that as retaliation he insisted that maybe he knew something without getting into details so as not to incriminate himself. Autosport would eat this up.

    I would think that if Ferrari had anything to hide they would have red-signed Vettel just to buy his silence.
     
  13. DeSoto

    DeSoto F1 Veteran

    Nov 26, 2003
    7,481
    They not have to worry, drivers only are told to put this or that engine mode, but they don't need to know how it works.
     
  14. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    9,252
    Well, if it were not "primarily" Ferrari's fault, Ferrari's last WDC would have been more recent than 2007 !

    Sure the various drivers had cock-ups, and several of them were within spitting distance of WDC (including Massa) but none of them got it done. Some it seemed were almost pushing the car along.....
     
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  15. 375+

    375+ F1 World Champ
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    Dec 28, 2005
    11,882
    Certainly Massa, the Singapore results should have been tossed out; Alonso thanks to Grosjean and Vitaly Petrov.
     
  16. DeSoto

    DeSoto F1 Veteran

    Nov 26, 2003
    7,481
    To be fair with Vettel, I don´t think he ever had a good enough Ferrari to win the championship. Good enough to put a fight, but not enough to win without some luck.

    But still he could have done better.
     
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  17. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    9,252
    And which direction is the finger of blame to be pointed? {Drivers, Ferrari[ Mechanics, Builders, Designers, Ferrari, Organization, Internal politics] }
     
  18. jgonzalesm6

    jgonzalesm6 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Oct 31, 2016
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    Joe R Gonzales

    All-of-the-above for $1000 Alex....
     
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  19. 375+

    375+ F1 World Champ
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    Dec 28, 2005
    11,882
    :D:D:D
     
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  20. DF1

    DF1 Two Time F1 World Champ

    #370 DF1, Jun 23, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2020
    He failed to make his own luck spinning or crashing on LAP 1 LOL. His faults are so obvious. He took a winning car and failed. He failed on the track. The team failed off the track etc. It took 2 but analysis by some shows his faults mattered more. I agree with this. You will not win on LAP 1 Seb LOL. Poor timinig, red mist and lack of strategic focus. All the traits he didnt need or possess at Red Bull when he was not under pressure a majority of races. Since leaving Red Bull he shows how incomplete he is especially in race craft.
     
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  21. 375+

    375+ F1 World Champ
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    Dec 28, 2005
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    +1 agree
     
  22. Barbedwyre

    Barbedwyre Karting

    Jan 21, 2018
    115
    Agreed. 1 season with LeClerc was all I needed to see that the majority of the problem was Seb.
     
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  23. Giallo 550

    Giallo 550 Formula 3

    May 25, 2019
    1,836
    NY
    Full Name:
    Jim
    I've said it before and I'll say it again: Fernando Alonso in the 2018 Ferrari takes the championship back to Maranello. Vettel simply does not have his race craft/intelligence.
     
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  24. Barbedwyre

    Barbedwyre Karting

    Jan 21, 2018
    115
    I agree. The cars were on par that year to a point where the driver was the difference.
     
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  25. DF1

    DF1 Two Time F1 World Champ

    Exactly yes! He knew how to make things happen with the car and press the fight. So he was difficult. Not something that matters to me. He made results on the track as he was supposed to/paid to.
     
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