812 VS Rumors | Page 75 | FerrariChat

812 VS Rumors

Discussion in 'F12/812' started by Frenzisko, Feb 10, 2018.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. mepassione

    mepassione Formula Junior

    Aug 17, 2019
    932
    Full Name:
    Passione
    Is my understanding correct when he says in the video within the next few years limit would be 72db or so does that mean in the loudest setting / high speed? If so the current 812 is much louder than that and indeed means no more loud cars and beautiful v12 sounds.
     
  2. red passion

    red passion Formula Junior

    Mar 4, 2012
    793
    Hockenheim, Germany
    Maybe we should all start going on the streets... Ferraris for future :)
     
  3. ferrarifanatic25

    ferrarifanatic25 Formula Junior

    Apr 9, 2009
    873
    OC
    Yes, 72 dB limit in loudest setting at highest rpm/throttle. Basically, they take the loudest noise the car can make under any circumstance and apply the limit to that.

    I don’t know the exact science or numbers, but a quick google search indicates that around every 10 dB’s is perceived as being twice as loud to the human ear. The 812 currently produces around 100 dB under wide open throttle. So the replacement will be 28 dB less. Some simple math ((2x as loud)^(28 dB / 10 dB)=6.96x) tells us that the 812 replacement will be around 7 times quieter than the current model.


    I don’t know if the restrictions only apply to cars sold in the EU or if they apply to anything anything produced in EU? Maybe someone can shed some light on this? Hopefully cars produced for non-EU countries will have less restrictive silencers.











    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
    Bundy and Caeruleus11 like this.
  4. red passion

    red passion Formula Junior

    Mar 4, 2012
    793
    Hockenheim, Germany
    THEY are killing the dream. MY dream. The dream that has been part of my life almost since I can remember! I am still several years away from getting in the position to purchase my first Ferrari, but will it be still worth then? It's getting really depressing ...
     
    of2worlds likes this.
  5. JTSE30

    JTSE30 F1 Rookie

    Oct 1, 2004
    3,242
    Austin TX
    EU regs only apply to cars registered for use in the EU, not what is produced in the EU; Ferrari can certainly decide to make cars without all the EU limitations (for production destined outside the EU), let us all hope so
     
    montpellier and ferrarifanatic25 like this.
  6. SVCalifornia

    SVCalifornia Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Mar 28, 2011
    2,447
    Silicon Valley
    Full Name:
    Keith
    Only applies to **new cars as well... once Ferrari sells it users can do what they want in the us. As long as it still meets emissions.

    SV


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
    ferrarifanatic25 likes this.
  7. Avia11

    Avia11 Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 21, 2017
    864
    San Diego, CA
    I hope they would but it might be unlikely that they would do that. I asked them for a gpf delete on my 812 GTS because its a US car and we don't require the GPF, Ferrari said they didn't do emissions testing without it so it would not be possible on that model. I wonder if the "sound restrictor" could be removed for non EU cars or if it would face a similar challenge.
     
  8. ferrarifanatic25

    ferrarifanatic25 Formula Junior

    Apr 9, 2009
    873
    OC
    I think it’s a slightly different scenario with your GTS as that car wasn’t subject to the new sound regulations when it was tested. Developing a separate exhaust without GPF would have been cost prohibitive from Ferrari’s perspective as a smaller manufacturer. Porsche makes 20x cars as Ferrari so they can afford to do this.

    My hope is that for future cars that are subject to the new euro guidelines, they will develop the best sounding/loudest exhaust possible as a baseline for all markets. Then, for EU cars, they will simply add an additional silencer (as opposed to an entirely new exhaust system) that brings the car into compliance. This way, the free world gets the full fledged, raw experience one would expect from a Ferrari without creating a massive financial burden for the company. Maybe just wishful thinking...





    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
  9. Solid State

    Solid State F1 Veteran
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 4, 2014
    9,582
    Full Name:
    Maximus Decimus Meridius
    Wishful thinking indeed. You say Ferrari can't afford to do separate GPF testing and then essentially hope they do separate sound testing. No need to add more cost if sound has already been removed as critical to sales. The turbos without/with GPF and now SF90 have removed sound from the machine already.
     
  10. JTSE30

    JTSE30 F1 Rookie

    Oct 1, 2004
    3,242
    Austin TX
    Homologation costs are significant and changing up the car for different countries emissions adds cost, Porsche does it, but they have much deeper pockets.

    As for the noise regulations, depends how Ferrari goes about it, for instance, if they choose to always have exhaust values closed and never open or open differently that is not likely something you will be allowed (warranty-wise) to change.

    more here (this link is for smaller vehicles/motorcycles but point is the same):
    http://www.euronoise2018.eu/docs/papers/174_Euronoise2018.pdf

    excerpt:
    Specific technical measures in order to achieve lower sound emission limits include: larger silencers, better shielding and covering, modifications of the inlet and exhaust systems, better engine design and optimization for noise and vibration, optimization of the combustion process and specific ECU software.

    I think the most scary scenario is "to comply" will eventually required tiny combustion engines that are used in combination with electric motors...

    I think the end goal of these noise regulations besides apparently being quieter is reduction in (combustion) engine output, which complements less CO2 output (where EU penatlties are increasing year over year)
     
    of2worlds likes this.
  11. mepassione

    mepassione Formula Junior

    Aug 17, 2019
    932
    Full Name:
    Passione
    Thankfully you can still buy an F12 or an 812 they should allow you to live your dream fully ... and fly! In case the emotion from sound is gone on new cars sadly
     
    PTG1 and montpellier like this.
  12. mepassione

    mepassione Formula Junior

    Aug 17, 2019
    932
    Full Name:
    Passione
    One thing I am a little confused about is that it seems the new legislation came into force already in 2016.
    How is it then that Ferrari were able to produce the 812 with 100db?
     
  13. montpellier

    montpellier Formula Junior

    Aug 27, 2009
    705
    Europe
    Full Name:
    Paul
    Apart from the noise differences, look how flat the VS is cornering , the 812 rolling and almost lifting the inside front wheel. The VS is very flat , less pitch under braking too. The traction is impressive, some form of four wheel drive I am thinking. Using the SF90 tech I would hazard a guess , with torque vectoring and AWD. Maybe the route it is taking to give the extra power too, with electric motors mounted as per SF90 on the front axle t0 to give the AWD. Maybe showcasing the future of the the V!2 with battery assistance. I know everyone saying the 50 bhp will come from higher rpm , but maybe they want to showcase some new technology with battery assistance/mild hybrid. Lamborghini have said their V12 will continue using hi tech battery technology, maybe the VS will use some SF90 concepts with a battery derived mild boost. As a few posters on here seem to know lots, they can happily confirm this is nonsense.
     
  14. mepassione

    mepassione Formula Junior

    Aug 17, 2019
    932
    Full Name:
    Passione
    I would tend to be as well of the opinion that the VS should showcase the next technology developed on the 812 successor which feels like hybrid according to various sources. Unless they decide to keep the VS properly NA as a tribute..anyone with more insight please help!
     
  15. KarlA69

    KarlA69 Formula Junior

    Oct 9, 2017
    759
    UK
    Full Name:
    Karl
    I have zero interest in the next gen of cars if hybrid or electric, even if they are faster. Maybe the snowflake generation wants that, but I feel the F12/812 is a very special thing, never to be repeated

    perhaps it’s antisocial, but wide open throttle on an 812 on a country lane.... yes please
     
    tatanmatan, deltona, Bundy and 5 others like this.
  16. montpellier

    montpellier Formula Junior

    Aug 27, 2009
    705
    Europe
    Full Name:
    Paul
    Another one from Rory. He must have been bored in lockdown. GPF info with some comment of Ferrari.

     
  17. mepassione

    mepassione Formula Junior

    Aug 17, 2019
    932
    Full Name:
    Passione
    Excellent video but again why I don’t understand is surely the 812GTS exceeds 74dv in its loudest mode so how were they able to manufacture it?
     
  18. KarlA69

    KarlA69 Formula Junior

    Oct 9, 2017
    759
    UK
    Full Name:
    Karl
    Apparently they are trailing noise cameras in the UK.. a (non modified) 812 would break the limit. Which seems weird - you can get fined for driving a car that was deemed type-approved and OK when new...?!
     
  19. red passion

    red passion Formula Junior

    Mar 4, 2012
    793
    Hockenheim, Germany
    Maybe they measure differently in Italy ;)

    No, but honestly very good question indeed.
     
  20. mepassione

    mepassione Formula Junior

    Aug 17, 2019
    932
    Full Name:
    Passione
    I’m pretty sure the camera will check your plate and check year of manufacture / type approve etc... i doubt they would fine ppl who are driving non modified cars as per their approved settings.
     
  21. mepassione

    mepassione Formula Junior

    Aug 17, 2019
    932
    Full Name:
    Passione
    Seriously I’m confused here
     
  22. montpellier

    montpellier Formula Junior

    Aug 27, 2009
    705
    Europe
    Full Name:
    Paul
    There was a phased 3 step introduction, as the 812 is sitting in a certain class (Kw/Kg ) it looks like the reduction is for 1 dB(A) . Phase 2 applicable for new vehicle type from 1 July 2020 and for first registration from 1 July 2022. This would take it from 75 to 74 dB(A) . Bear in mind the testing for these things are complex and involve a whole set of criteria and road conditions, the acceleration test looks rife for trickery. The GTS would have needed type approval due to the roof, so in theory would already have the reduced noise introduced with the GPF. Most manufacturers have been piping noise into the cabin for some time, Ferrari started with the 488 . So nothing new there.

    The reality is , Ferrari , like the other will become quieter, this is the direction the world is going. The July 24 requirement is another 2 dB(A) lower.

    Link to regs
    https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX:32014R0540
     
    of2worlds and maxemus like this.
  23. mepassione

    mepassione Formula Junior

    Aug 17, 2019
    932
    Full Name:
    Passione
    I don’t see how they will manage to keep the V12 in their range. Why would you buy a Ferrari V12 for it to be quiet? They might be able to increase power and deal with the gas emission constraint by adding electric motors/ batteries+ GPF and play with power to mass ratio but from a noise standpoint it doesn’t look like there is a way. This will reduce future demand for V12 I doubt so many people will pay a fortune to have a silent V12...Unfortunately..
     
    JTSE30 likes this.
  24. JTSE30

    JTSE30 F1 Rookie

    Oct 1, 2004
    3,242
    Austin TX
    The body roll looks the same, the '812VS' was being driven slower through the turns, and if you watch the body roll at the exit of the outgoing turn it appears to have same body roll as 812SF.

    And, there is no room for electric motors at the front axles in the 812; And, if the 812VS was to use electric power it might be years before it is ready (based on the SF90 still being in development...and not production).

    Eagerly awaiting the reveal...
     
  25. red passion

    red passion Formula Junior

    Mar 4, 2012
    793
    Hockenheim, Germany
    That is exactly what is confusing. According to the regulations the 812 should have have noise limit of 75dB (assuming that type approval was after July 1, 2016 considering a march 2017 launch; so for the GTS for sure) and we all know that the 812 (even the GTS) is pretty loud.
     

Share This Page