How soft is the current re-sale market? | FerrariChat

How soft is the current re-sale market?

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by PeteClemens, Jun 13, 2020.

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  1. PeteClemens

    PeteClemens Rookie

    Jun 5, 2020
    13
    Hey guys,

    I'm new to these parts, this apart from reading the discussions for the last few weeks. Impressed by the depth of knowledge and general enthusiasm.

    I suppose what drew me to this corner was a tweet that suggested the bottom of the resale market was falling out.



    So I checked a few other auction sites and indeed, either reserve wasn't met (and best bids were v weak) or sale prices were substantially lower than they were a year ago.

    Is this all my imagination? Or are others picking up the same thing?

    All/any thoughts on the current state of the resale market most appreciated. More data points, including inventory levels, even better. Outlooks also welcome.

    Thanks in advance.....
     
  2. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Dec 6, 2002
    79,143
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    Bubba
    IMO, the 599 was a great car that was replaced shortly after by another great car.

    So despite he MSRPs they have not held equity well.
    I would drive one any day of the week.

    We call that "value" in Ferrari land.

    Each individual model "makes it's own curves" in the market.
     
    furmano likes this.
  3. PeteClemens

    PeteClemens Rookie

    Jun 5, 2020
    13
    Thanks for this. To be a little more clear, I am referring to market softness in excess of expected depreciation curves. The subtext here is obviously COVID and the very weak economy. I understand most Ferrari owners (and dealers) are not dependent on their day jobs, but still... it seems the market has frozen in places. Am I seeing something that is not there?
     
  4. greyboxer

    greyboxer F1 World Champ

    Dec 8, 2004
    12,282
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    Jimmie
    The first sentence above is 'something that is not there' and in fact I think you are basically insulting the majority of owners who have worked long and hard to earn their cars as an aspiration and reward
     
    Racer_X, Lusso123 and Thomas S. like this.
  5. Ferrari 308 GTB

    Ferrari 308 GTB F1 Veteran

    Feb 21, 2015
    7,716
    Tropical
  6. PeteClemens

    PeteClemens Rookie

    Jun 5, 2020
    13
    Look, I am terribly sorry about that. No insult was intended. Chalk it up to my ignorance.

    In my defence, I noted a lot of the cars listed in European auctions came from the middle east -- economic cycles there are not like economic cycles elsewhere. More generally, not that many people can write a cheque for $500k for a non-essential something item. I'm not quite sure how you do that unless you have a great deal of disposable income and/or savings. This again suggests a certain immunity to the rough n tumble realities of the average economic cycle.

    But call me stupid and uninformed -- am I wrong about this? Bad downturns will always see a raft of Porsches and BMW sent back to the lot. I had thought (and was actually led to believe by a car broker) that Ferraris danced to a bit of a different tune.

    Again -- apologies for any offense and poor choice of works.
     
  7. cuse92

    cuse92 Karting
    Silver Subscribed

    Aug 13, 2013
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    Kent, UK
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    Ben
    That's an imported left hand drive car in a right hand drive market, that always lowers prices. In addition, the HGTE pack isn't original to the car, it has quite a lot of miles on in for a 599, there are paint blemishes, and tan leather interiors are not nearly as popular in the UK as they are in the US. Plus when you are buying in an auction it is "as is where is" unless it is misrepresented. All of that would have affected the value on that particular car. I think the 575 will be much in the same boat. A UK independent Ferrari specialist that I spoke with last week said that sales have been surprisingly good, but we see whether that lasts. I find it difficult to believe that the market won't take a hit given what is coming for the global economy.
     
  8. furmano

    furmano Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Jul 22, 2004
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    The "toy" market has softened across the board because of the crisis we're facing. Ferrari's are no different.

    That said, the car you presented as an example has it's own "issues" with value. Models from the early 2000's are at a place where they are "not loved". It happens. On the flip side these models can be seen as great values.

    -F
     
  9. technom3

    technom3 F1 World Champ
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    Mar 29, 2007
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    The market is all over the map. Very sporadic.

    I would say if you get a serious buyer who is somewhat close. Take it. It could be a while before you come across another solid offer.

    Holding out used to work... But now it might not make as much sense and in some markets you just aren't going to see it turn around for years.


    The other thing I have noticed is that alot of very very low miles cars are not want people want.

    300 mile la Ferraris are not as desirable as 1800 mile la Ferrari.

    Before there were more collectors... Which weren't collectors they were speculators. Now many of those people have left the market and we have people who actually want to drive their cars
     
  10. Shark01

    Shark01 F1 Veteran

    Jun 25, 2005
    5,687
    You are confused in thinking how a 599 would be effected the same way a true collectible like a Daytona might be.

    Modern production Ferraris have steep depreciation just like your Porsches and BMWs, just that the offset is different (because of higher MSRPs), and the curve is a little flatter (although maybe FF owners might disagree). Go and see what 488s and California Ts are doing in this market. So you either misinterpreted what the broker told you.....or stay far away from that hack.
     
    Texas Forever likes this.
  11. 020147

    020147 F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jun 12, 2006
    3,649
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    I think it boils down to the vintage of cars you’re looking at. Cars like 360’s, 430’s and the other “entry level” Ferrari’s seem to be a pretty good song right now. I bought a one owner 488 last week, high spec car, low miles. I think I made out pretty well with the deal but the car was hardly a fire sale price. IMO, the cost variable fluctuates depending on the year/model you’re looking at. The newer cars still seem to be holding pretty solid, despite high depreciation coming. Let’s face it; if you had the liquidity to responsibly spend on a 250K+ car at the end of Q4 2019 you should still have that liquidity available in Q2 2020.
     
    Texas Forever likes this.
  12. Themaven

    Themaven F1 Rookie

    Nov 2, 2014
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    I think it's a bit all over the place. A manual 430 spider just sold at auction for $250k, same with a manual 575. Those are strong prices. Surprisingly strong. But I don't get the idea bargain hunters will find much more to feast on now than six months ago. Many Ferrari owners just hold on to their cars instead of selling them cheap. But, let's see.
     
  13. Husker

    Husker F1 World Champ

    Dec 31, 2003
    11,788
    western hemisphere
    I have been tracking the ask prices of various 360s for about six or seven weeks now. Around the first of May, there were some quite gorgeous 360 Spiders in the high 50s and low 60s. I had two nice red examples, a yellow, two silver, and two black ones from which to choose - all below $65K, some closer to $60K. On CarGurus, there are now only two 360s on their listings out of 48 that are below $65K. Only nine out of 48 are below $70K.
     
    Texas Forever likes this.
  14. Mirek

    Mirek Formula 3
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    Oct 20, 2019
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    A 1997 456 went for $87k on BAT last week, that was strong, there is another 456m *asking* $125k on the market now.

    The sorted ones command what they get from buyers hunting them and will generally sell OR sit on market without a price reduction but the basket-case cars seem to underperform sales wise.

    The chasm between a well sorted/maintained/issues addressed unit VS a basketcase is getting much wider every year for good reason.
     
  15. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky F1 World Champ
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    Sep 18, 2002
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    The 599..sorry to say is not a pleasant car to drive. Its very rough and old feeling. It does shrink around you at speed, but there is an underlying unsettled chassis that just does not give you confidence in the car. It sees almost confused on what it wants to be.

    Great looking thing for sure, but the drive is not anywhere near what a 550 or 575 can deliver. It's a car that just feels "off" if that makes any sense.
     
    rumen1 likes this.
  16. ChipG

    ChipG Formula 3

    May 26, 2011
    1,722
    Santa Monica, CA
    it's really strong if you can list your car on Bring a Trailer
     
  17. Themaven

    Themaven F1 Rookie

    Nov 2, 2014
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    Darius
    Interesting, and I agree. I found that the 599 was not enough fun to be a sports car and not settled or refined enough to be a GT. F12 is much improved and not much more, 550/575 are a different type of car, more classic GT.
     
  18. Husker

    Husker F1 World Champ

    Dec 31, 2003
    11,788
    western hemisphere
    You guys are picky picky ! :D
     
  19. Cigarzman

    Cigarzman F1 Veteran
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

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