Sainz 2021 | Page 7 | FerrariChat

Sainz 2021

Discussion in 'F1' started by vitajojo38, May 14, 2020.

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  1. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Very true in the case of Raikkonen.
    If the car doesn't suit him, Kimi won't try to wrestle it but instead he adopts a conservative pace where he feels comfortable.
    We saw that during different seasons.
     
  2. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    The whinging will be forgotten once he starts winning regularly.
     
  3. Igor Ound

    Igor Ound F1 Veteran

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    #153 Igor Ound, Jun 7, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2020
    Some used to say Alonso pushed development towards understeering cars which only he could drive well and which hampered his teammates.
    Regarding Vettel being very technically adept, precise and detailed with his feedback, not my opinion but Binotto and Leclerc’s himself.
    Any information shows this data about Sainz? Being better than Vettel at this?
    Flexibility is not necessarily the most important quality. I don’t care for somebody who can drag a POS Ferrari on a podium when the car has no merit of being there. I prefer someone who can develop it to be a title contender
     
  4. DF1

    DF1 Two Time F1 World Champ

    Vettel a quite clever intelligent man. Technical competence in terms of F1 car etc is another topic. Newey flattered his style and immediate change to the new Formulae brought immediate drop in performance. Ricci soundly defeated him. His margin over Kimi was notable for how small it was and early on at Ferrari this was noted.

    A driver getting more out of the car should help an engineering team to make it better. Clearly the driver is using the car beyond what another can do and this can be assessed. Of course a locked design cannot be changed so easily over time as the season moves on. Development takes time. The driver is 10% now. We keep talking about this item of 'a driver developing' they have not been doing much. None of them. They are at the mercy of the 90% input from the tech teams/engineers. More than 1 noted engineer states this. The good driver takes a winning car and wins. 2 of 3 years Vettel has failed in this. Documented.
     
  5. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    If.
     
  6. Igor Ound

    Igor Ound F1 Veteran

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    The hate for Vettel is unbelievable. Now even Sainz is better in every way...
     
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  7. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    Agree. Apparently the Ferrari Vettel drove was every bit as fast as the Mercedes? If so why did Leclerc hardly do any better?

    Vettel was part of a team that was so hideously mismanaged and ruled by utter fear. Not his fault, he inherited that team. And the culture of fear remained to exist. It's no surprise a lot of good people sacked by Ferrari ended up at Mercedes and ended up doing a whole lot of good (for them) there. The culture of fear is doubly counter-productive, because people become scared to do something daring....instead they are conservative with their work, which will never result in a dominating car.

    I was frustrated for some of Vettel's mistakes, but I also understand them.

    I think Ferrari made a mistake sacking him and replacing him with Sainz.
     
  8. TonyL

    TonyL F1 Rookie

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    Nailed it in one.
     
  9. Igor Ound

    Igor Ound F1 Veteran

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    #159 Igor Ound, Jun 8, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2020
    I think the Italian press is to blame for most of the above
     
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  10. DF1

    DF1 Two Time F1 World Champ

    I will not suspect Ferrari motive for Vettel being released/not renewed with a contract. Years not 1 but 3 of issues/mistakes, many poorly timed in critical races in the title fight. With all this the team have the best data and actually speak personally to Vettel. Jointly they decided to leave. The press is the press. They provide an emotional last word. The fact is clear - the team and Vettel spoke and there was no resolution.

    I personally believe the team was ready to move on in case no deal was made. Clearly they were. They knew Vettel was suffering in terms of dealing with Charles the model Vettel ran on to compete was broken. He now faced his Red Bull dilemma again and chose the same route of an exit. Certainly he has feelings about life and family that affect all of this. Quite normal.
     
  11. Flavio_C

    Flavio_C Formula 3
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    Side note: perhaps his preferece is a reminiscent of his (impressive) karting days. Competition go-karts are set up to be understeering vehicles.
     
  12. Flavio_C

    Flavio_C Formula 3
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    Wait a minute, as far as I remember, in 2018 Vettel was leading the championship when he did that stupid mistake while in P1 at the German GP. Also had that childish "road rage" over Hamilton in Baku. And the biggest of them all: spining alone at the Italian Gran Prix. How a "mismanaged" team can be deemed responsible for such rookie mistakes? Leclerc, in his first year at the Scuderia, driving a car designed for Vettel's driving style, destroyed the German fair and square.

    But I agree that they made a mistake replacing him with Sainz.
     
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  13. Igor Ound

    Igor Ound F1 Veteran

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  14. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    I agree first the first part of your post, but not the second.

    Vettel committed too many mistakes, and Leclerc is now Ferrari's best chance.
    Vettel would probably not accept to be demoted to a support role.
    Therefore he has to be replaced by someone who will not rock the boat: Sainz.
     
  15. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Vettel is now prone to tantrums.
    Sainz will be more pliable.
     
  16. Flavio_C

    Flavio_C Formula 3
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    I don't know how good is Ricciardo's technical knowlodge but he is much more talented and experienced than Sainz.
     
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  17. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    Ferrari capitalized early on a slow start from Mercedes, had Lewis not had retired earlier that season with an engine problem he'd have been in the lead. By the time F1 came to Europe Mercedes was once again the fastest car on track easily, only certain conditions suited the Ferrari better and even then the gap was marginal.

    Ferrari never had the fastest car comfortably. Only occasionally and with a small margin was the car either equal or a bit faster.

    I can forgive his Germany spin, he had a (small) tap from lewis that send him spinning. Baku is something he shouldn't have done, he should've kept his head. I understand he was frustrated but had he kept his head, he not only would've won the GP, he'd have won it with a comfortable margin over Lewis.

    German GP...a tiny but very costly mistake. First on the scene on an ever changing track. Not easy. These cars are so complicated now, the low speed lock he had can be caused by a whole range of things, either his own mistake, engine harvesting from the rear axle at the wrong time, brake bias, diff setting....oil on track? A combination of things? He certainly wasn't the only one to slide off.

    Agree. I think Ferrari doesn't want an intra-team battle on the off-chance they build a good car and it costing them many points. That's the only reason I can see them choosing the current driver pairing. However, they need the structure of Red Bull or Mercedes, and the organisation of either....which they don't have. 2022 they can even be overtaken by Mclaren considering the state Ferrari is in currently.
     
  18. DF1

    DF1 Two Time F1 World Champ

    I dont think they made a mistake with Sainz. No more of a mistake than hiring or keeping Vettel. He has had ample time to move forward and challenge successfully for a title. He failed along with the team. As you outline he did mistakes not at all involving the team. He had a major mistake 30% of the time. You cannot win alone or as a team with this statistic.

    The team and Vettel drifted apart and Charles was the new driver to bring a bit of harmony to look forward. Vettel last 3 years were replays of failure. The management needed to stop this. They offered him 1 year and other press say no real deal was offered. I suspect the team was gauging his interest overall given Charles new position with long term contract.
     
  19. Jack-the-lad

    Jack-the-lad Six Time F1 World Champ
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    I’m wondering how VET will conduct himself on track this year.
     
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  20. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    I agree and I don't know why Ferrari turned down Ricciardo for the second time.
    I think Ricciardo will be happier at McLaren though.
     
  21. Jack-the-lad

    Jack-the-lad Six Time F1 World Champ
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    Frankly I never understood the RIC love. Sainz is a better long term play.
     
  22. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Well, you know, you can't explain love. ;)

    Ricciardo has shown he can win races and he has a good personality.
     
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  23. DeSoto

    DeSoto F1 Veteran

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    I don´t know why Vettel is being given such leeway. His spins and outburst have nothing to do with the car or the team management.

    The only way Vettel could have stayed was if he´d accepted a salary appropiate to his results. He did not, he´s out, it´s fair, wish him luck, he´ll need it to find a good ride.
     
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  24. DF1

    DF1 Two Time F1 World Champ

    https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/153769/sainz-could-test-2018-ferrari-to-get-used-to-team

    Carlos Sainz Jr's first Formula 1 test for Ferrari could be in a 2018 car in a bid to get him up to speed with the team, the Spaniard admits.

    With next year's pre-season testing schedule being cut back to just one single three-day run, there have been a number of concerns voiced about drivers not getting enough time to learn new surroundings if they are switching teams.

    F1's test restrictions mean that it is not possible to run a current or 2019 car outside of next year's test, which limits the scope for drivers like Sainz who are moving outfits.

    However, teams are free to do as much running as they like with 2018 cars, which are still based on the same aerodynamic regulations.

    After Fernando Alonso decided his best hope of getting used to his new Renault team was by having regular tests in a 2018 car, Sainz has admitted that he will discuss with Ferrari over the winter about whether he too should adopt a similar programme after his move from McLaren.

    "We will see - that's my answer at the moment," said Sainz.

    "Once I leave McLaren to be a Ferrari driver, there would be a lot of thinking behind the scenes to make sure I arrive to the test and to the first race as prepared as possible.

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    "Obviously that [testing a 2018 car] could be an option, but I remain committed to McLaren and I don't want to get distracted too much by what the future of January, February and March might bring."

    With pre-season testing limited to just a single car, Sainz feels the fact that drivers will get just one-and-a-half days of running each before the start of 2021 is too limited to get on top of things.

    "I can already tell you that one-day-and-a-half in an F1 car, these complex F1 cars, is not enough to prepare for an F1 season," he explained.

    "You don't get to know the tricks of the car, or the steering wheel, even though you do a lot of simulator [runs].

    "[You need] to get to know the crew, so one-day-and-a-half is very, very little and probably not enough.

    "But it is what it is. We will have to adapt and we will need to find a way to make sure we are as prepared as possible within the limits [of the regulations]."
     
  25. DF1

    DF1 Two Time F1 World Champ

    https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/sainz-im-pushing-myself-to-adapt-to-ferrari-f1-car/6525095/

    Sainz: I'm pushing myself to adapt to Ferrari F1 car
    By: Luke Smith
    Jun 2, 2021, 4:58 AM
    Carlos Sainz Jr says he is enjoying the challenge of adapting to Ferrari’s Formula 1 car in 2021, revealing he had to “change quite a lot” in his driving style.


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    Sainz linked up with Ferrari for the 2021 season as a replacement for four-time world champion Sebastian Vettel, joining the Italian team after spending two years with McLaren.

    The Spaniard has already made an impact since joining Ferrari, scoring his first podium for the team at the last race in Monaco with a faultless drive to second place.

    But while embedding himself in the team and getting up to speed, Sainz has found the Ferrari car to be “very, very different” to what he was used to at McLaren, forcing him to make adjustments to his approach and driving style.

    “My driving style and the way I turn in, brake, carry speed through the corners in different places and different corner types is very different to last year,” Sainz explained.

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    Adrian Newey, Chief Technical Officer, Red Bull Racing, Carlos Sainz Jr., Ferrari, 2nd position, Max Verstappen, Red Bull Racing, 1st position, and Lando Norris, McLaren, 3rd position, on the podium

    Photo by: Andy Hone / Motorsport Images

    “I’m having to push myself to open my mind and adapt as a driver. And I actually find it really good fun.”

    Sainz would not be drawn on what exactly the differences between the Ferrari and the McLaren car are, with the two teams set to duke it out for third place in the constructors’ championship this year.

    "It's something that I keep for myself and my team,” Sainz said.

    “Obviously the McLaren might have changed a bit also with the Mercedes power unit. Especially this year, they look particularly good on the straights and and they are very, very strong in that area.

    “But driving-wise and balance-wise, doesn't matter if it's low-speed, medium-speed and high-speed, they are completely different cars and I am having to change quite a lot and adapt.

    “I know the difference, but I'm not willing to tell you now.”

    Sainz has previously faced the challenge of adapting to different cars with limited running, having previously switched from Toro Rosso to Renault mid-season in 2017. He then spent just a single full campaign at Renault before moving across to McLaren.

    Sainz raced at McLaren alongside Lando Norris, who felt his former team-mate had a knack for making adjustments and adapting to cars even when they were not running perfectly, noting the difference to new partner Daniel Ricciardo.

    “Daniel, from what I’ve seen so far, he wants a car that really suits him maybe that little bit more,” said Norris.

    “Carlos was good at driving a car that wasn’t always that nice to drive. He was very good at that.

    “It’s just one of the things I guess I’ve learned at the moment. Daniel is very fast when he has the car around him and when everything is suited.

    “But as soon as there is a couple of problems or, just as most drivers do, as soon as you lose that bit of confidence, then you just struggle a little bit more.

    “I don’t think that’s just with him, that’s just something some drivers have more than others – it’s a confidence thing.”
     

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