What legal height could an SR-71 Blackbird buzz a small town on the West Coast? | FerrariChat

What legal height could an SR-71 Blackbird buzz a small town on the West Coast?

Discussion in 'Aviation Chat' started by bitzman, Jun 5, 2020.

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  1. bitzman

    bitzman F1 Rookie
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    Not trying to get ayone in trouble. They retired them all but I am writing a fiction story where the pilot buzzes a village, Mendocino, at 1,000 ft. Would that break wndows? How fast could they fly t that speed legally over a town (I have him doing over 1200 mph) I have hot only hit the afterbrners after the flyover. I know they flew out of Beale but don't know if they went up and down the coast. The story angle is his buddies don't know he flys it. I met some ex-Blaclbird pilots at Blackbird Day at March AB (a re-occuring event at bases where thye have the 12 planes) and they told me none of their neighbors were aware of what they flew.
     
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  2. donv

    donv Two Time F1 World Champ
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    I don't know about military regulations, but 1,000 feet would be fine under part 91. 500 feet would be okay over unpopulated areas.

    Boeing's chief test pilot was fired some years back for buzzing a beach town in Oregon in a 737... he said he never went below 500 feet (maybe 1000 feet?), so he kept his certificates even though he lost his job. At least that's what I recall.
     
  3. Bob Parks

    Bob Parks F1 Veteran
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    I have no knowledge of regulations but I do have a great memory of an SR-71 visiting the Paine Field Airshow some years back. We were told when it would arrive and since I was working at Boeing Everrett at the time we went out to the field to see it arrive. At a few minutes before the ETA we saw nothing and heard nothing. Paine is a wide open area with the Puget Sound to the west, Edmonds to the south, and Puget Sound to the north. The north end of the field drops off to the sound , about 500 feet above it. As we stood there waiting, we weren't 30 seconds past the ETA when the airplane roared up from the drop-off at the north end of the field at a pretty good speed and buzzed the length of the runway at maybe 200 feet. I have to say that that airplane is an evil looking thing blasting down a runway at low altitude. It pulled up and made a climbing turn to the west in after burner and made a high wide turn to the north where it made a let- down and started an approach and landed. After taxiing up to the main hangar it parked facing us and we could see a frantic activity to get equipment under the airplane to catch the fuel that was leaking out of the wings. That thing was peeing steaming liquid for at least 15-20 minutes. It was on static display for the show but when it left , it took off in AB and climbed out to the west again, made that turn to the north and came around to make a high speed pass over the runway, pulled up and hit AB again well into the climb and disappeared to meet a tanker somewhere near the moon. One of the most impressive things that I can remember. I saw the Hindenburg and many exciting airplanes at Abottsford but that SR-71 was the most spectacular .
     
  4. Simon^2

    Simon^2 F1 World Champ

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    Word of advice... get a good proof reader!
     
  5. donv

    donv Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Sorry, I didn't realize you were asking about speed, not height. 250 knots is the limit below 10,000, unless you have an operational requirement which exceeds that. I don't know if the SR-71 can do 250 knots comfortably-- I would imagine it can-- but that's the limit. No supersonic over the continental US, except possibly for some military airspace.
     
  6. jcurry

    jcurry Two Time F1 World Champ
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    At the Dayton Airshow back in the early 80's they had a flyby. They flew over my house, about 15 miles away, while getting setup. They were just cruising at about 1500 ft over our town west of Dayton. Heard it at least 15 sec before it came within view. At that altitude and speed turbojets are LOUD.
     
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  7. Tcar

    Tcar F1 Rookie

    Jeebus, get someone, anyone, to redo your spelling.
     
  8. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    The SR-71 was not designed to fly supersonic at low altitudes. There is likely no way one could take the air loads of 1200 mph (Mach 1.56). We even ripped up pieces like overwing fairings and spoilers on our F-111s flying low level at Mach 1-1.2. There are supersonic corridors in the US, but normally only for military aircraft at high altitude and certainly not over small towns on the Left Coast. There are also low level routes for military aircraft, but those are not cleared for supersonic flight, which would be limited to restricted airspace in ranges or overwater clear of boats. In 1986, our two ship of F-111s, one F-111F and one F-111D, did $50,000 worth of damage to a small town quite a distance from our range at Eglin AFB. We were testing air inflatable retard (AIR) Mk84s at 700 KCAS and the weatherman fouled up the forecast. We got ducting of the supersonic shock wave and busted a whole bunch of windows. That was at about Mach 1.05 (supersonic is ~668 knots at sea level).

    So aside from being illegal, technically impossible, and causing likely millions of dollars in damage, great idea.
     
  9. Bob Parks

    Bob Parks F1 Veteran
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    BUZZJOBS. I got to thinking about the buzz jobs that I have seen. No low level stuff up north in Wash. D.C. but when we moved to the beach on Siesta key I saw my first one when I was 13, a string of Travel Airs and Wacos flying down the beach. I mentioned it in my book. THEN, when the war started , the military put on an almost daily show starting with P-39's. They were moved some place else and the P-40's came in. They were soon replaced by P-51's but they did not do the buzz jobs. I think that the rules got tightened up in 1944-1945. However, in between the locally based fighters there were B-26's, B-24's, SBD's, P-47's, A-26's, P-38's, and B-17's. Of all the aircraft that "passed by" , the B-17 was the nicest. That is such a beautiful airplane and the sound is just as good as its looks. It has a grace that few airplanes possess.
     
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  10. killer58

    killer58 Formula 3

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    Generally, for fixed wing aircraft, you’re limited to no lower than 1000 feet over populated areas. However, there are exceptions to that, air shows are a good example.

    Since the speed of sound is a function of temperature, it varies both with altitude and location. At sea level along the SOCAL coast, it would be in the vicinity of 770 mph. And while deliberate supersonic flight is prohibited, it does happen. Again at air shows, albeit usually inadvertently. Out at Miramar, we normally approach the runway from the east, from out over the desert. However, just past the runway to the west, you meet coastal air which is much cooler, sometimes as much as 20-30 degrees. If you’re on the edge, it can be enough to push you into transonic flight, and a whole host of broken windows, complaints, and an ass chewing (don’t ask).

    Certainly, the Blackbird has the capability, but it’s got to have enough airspace (distance) to get there. The physical constraints around Mendocino would pose a challenge. But since it’s a “fiction story” why let facts get in the way? Most Naval Aviators wouldn’t...... ;)

    Oh, and supersonic over a town at 1000 feet? You’d break a whole lotta windows, and then some.
     
  11. killer58

    killer58 Formula 3

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    Oh, and another thought; not sure of the exact date, but the last Blackbird was retired sometime around 1990.

    Pre Tail Hook.

    Back then, we used to do all kinds of stuff that today would get you Court Marshaled. Busting the SOS was much more common then.
     
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  12. Bob Parks

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    The 1966 Abottsford air show was the precursor of the big Centennial blast the next year. At 1100 on Saturday morning the ramp was full of spectators pushing forward to the show line fence. Things were pretty loose then and the stricter rules were not in place for the conduct of the show. My partner and I were heading through the crowd for our airplane so that new were in place when the show started. I happened to pick up a cloud of black smoke to the north in the Frazier River valley and jabbed my partner to look at it. In seconds the cause of the smoke became clear as a flight of three CF-101's rapidly came into focus. None of the spectators had any idea of what was going to happen and when the jets flew quite low and over the crowd in AB , the noise was like an explosion that shocked the women and little kids to crying out and crying period. It shook everybody up literally. I think that the birds were near Mach One because it was like getting hit with a mattress when they went by and the air made a wheezing and swishing sound for a long time after they passed. That opened the show alright but it left a lot of people with shaky knees. I thought that it was great. I think that I can attest to the power of the overpressure of a plane near or above M-1
     
  13. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Bob- Affirmative, we blew over a sailboat we did not see in time over the Gulf of Mexico one time, and we were nowhere near supersonic (~540 KGS). We came back to check, but the keel righted her so nobody came after our hides.
     
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  14. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    I was miffed when they moved the carrier from PNAS to Corpus. Growing up in Pensacola in the ‘60s you got used to the buzz. Anything and everything was flying. Moreover, it was real.

    Even today, the Blues do a lazy 180 right in front of my house before they strafe the Beach. It is amazing how slow they go and how big they are.

    I’m one of those who hate the Pentagon. But at the boots level, you guys are stunning. I’m glad you’re on my side.


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
     
  15. airborne

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    Standard climb speed was 450 KIAS from sea level to about 60,000 ft at M2.6, then a linear schedule to M3.2. Limit speed was 500KIAS to M2.6 at 56,000 ft. Plenty of excess thrust to exceed that limit if one desired to bust it.
     
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  16. Gatorrari

    Gatorrari F1 World Champ
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    The two SR-71 performances I saw were both at Abbotsford. One time the plane simply flew by, first fast, then slow, then a fast departure where he lit the burners right in front of the crowd, pulled the nose up at about a 30 degree angle and headed off to find that tanker. Biggest afterburners (by far) that I've ever seen in my life!

    The other time the plane made the first two passes and then landed and taxiied up to a place in front of the crowd. SR-71s leak like a sieve after a flight; no surprise when you consider all that metal expanding and contracting. Leaking fuel is no danger, because the special fuel used by the Blackbird (JP-7) has such a high flash point that you could throw a lighted match into a puddle and it would not ignite.
     
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  17. Bob Parks

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    I seem to recall that the fuel is a jell rather than a more fluid substance. Weird sight to see it pouring out of the open seams in the wings when they are cooling.
     
  18. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    They obviously had their own tankers, KC-135Qs if I remember correctly. The airframe was designed to accommodate expansion from the heat of Mach 2.5-3+ flight at altitude. That kind of heating would not occur at low altitude and much lower supersonic Mach numbers.
     
  19. donv

    donv Two Time F1 World Champ
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    What were typical approach speeds?
     
  20. airborne

    airborne Karting

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    The back of the flight envelope was 300 KIAS down to 25000 ft, then 145 KIAS (or 14 deg angle of attack) down to sea level.
    Minimum flight speed was based on stability out of ground effect. Minimum rotation speed was 154 KIAS and was driven by ground clearance. At design weight takeoff speed was 205 KIAS, but they usually went off light and hit a tanker promptly. The dedicated tanker fleet was a huge operational cost.
     
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  21. Juan-Manuel Fantango

    Juan-Manuel Fantango F1 World Champ
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    Bob, you have seen it all!
     
  22. Bob Parks

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    Thanks, I just hope that no one finds out that I make up a lot of stuff. I have to thank my mother for taking us out to see things and encouraging us to continue as we grew up. We spent a lot of time with her at the old Washington Airport, where the Pentagon is now, watching the airplanes. One day we were parked at the stop point where the road crossed the runway and watched someone come in to land an autogyro right in front of us. As I remember, it was a powder blue Kellet. When the pilot climbed out and removed the helmet, mother exclaimed , " My heavens! That's Amelia Earhart !" So, that's how a lot of things have happened, I guess.
     
  23. Juan-Manuel Fantango

    Juan-Manuel Fantango F1 World Champ
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    wow wow wow WOW!! Julie and I have visited a marker in Anderson, SC where she also landed the Kellet. Mabe the same tour...
     
  24. Bob Parks

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    As I get older, I find many more things that are connected. I have either known someone that someone else knew or or events are mentioned that I have attended, etc. My roaming around so much is probably why I don't have a high level degree in anything or a list of accomplishments . I have had a great ride and met a lot of great people, however.
     
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  25. Bob Parks

    Bob Parks F1 Veteran
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    After doing some research, I suspect that the autogyro was a Pitcairn and not a Kellett. They both were extremely similar but the Pitcairn didn't have the elongated vertical stabilizer.I was about 5 or 6 at the time so my recall has to work pretty hard at this point.
     

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