Why don't Japanese sports cars have more street cred compared to European brands? | Page 2 | FerrariChat

Why don't Japanese sports cars have more street cred compared to European brands?

Discussion in 'General Automotive Discussion' started by ren0312, May 25, 2020.

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  1. merstheman

    merstheman F1 Rookie

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    Sorry to say this car came out several months before the MGB. Unless you know of corporate espionage, you'd be wrong here....

    Redesign/Facelift, pictured in the ad, was done by Goertz, who was involved with the design of the 2000GT as well as the 240Z, all of which were and still are lauded in terms of their original design.
     
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  2. anunakki

    anunakki Seven Time F1 World Champ
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  3. Sterling Sackey

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    As someone who is an ardent Japanese sports car enthusiast & specializes in them as a business, this is the best answer in this thread.

    The Japanese brands can be totally brilliant when they commit to building exciting & sporting cars, but unfortunately they all tend to be too conservative fiscally to commit to it for an indefinite period. As a result, we see spurts of brilliance, and long periods of 'not much' in between.

    Additionally, Japanese car companies have never embraced the very top of the luxury / premium market or established unique brands that compete there, so their badge perception amongst those who care about such things (which is most people, really) has always been secondary to the Europeans.

    Personally, I really like that there aren't constant replacements to the great Japanese cars, as it makes each iteration feel more special when they do happen. I never have to worry about my S2000 being replaced with the latest-and-greatest version. And, despite the un-premium badge perception, I've always found Japanese car companies to have some incredible histories that are up there with the best of the Europeans (especially Honda, Soichiro was an incredible figure and one of the greatest car engineers to ever live).
     
  4. ShineKen

    ShineKen F1 World Champ
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    Here’s a beautiful classic Z you dont see everyday (or ever).

    I started with Japanese cars. As I’ve gotten older and ventured into a Lotus Exige, Ferrari F355 and Scud, there’s a technological line I wouldn’t cross because I like my cars as pure and raw as possible, which stems from my initial love around JDM cars. There’s the idea of “art in simplicity” and certain older Japanese sports cars are just that. Simple and straight to the point. They’re driver-focused minimalist cars.

    My pops had a 91 NSX, which was the first car I learned to drive a manual with. I still have a Mazda RX-7, which I don’t plan to ever sell. I share a track S2000 with my buddy which is a superb, well-balanced, visceral car. Could very well be the best manual naturally-aspirated 4-cylinder car ever made.

    Another problem is we get toned down U.S versions. The JDM versions are usually more hardcore with plenty more “special editions” worth collecting. We really get some half-ass versions, which need some fine tuning/upgrades to feel right.

    If most just stop being brand whores and just appreciate sports cars like you would appreciate an older classic, then the good Japanese cars will start garnering more respect. You can start to see the trend in auction prices for certain models.

    I always love to share this vintage footage of Senna driving and old Vtec Honda :). Just drive.

     
  5. BMW.SauberF1Team

    BMW.SauberF1Team F1 World Champ

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    ^432Z is my favorite Z hands down. Nissan is announcing like a dozen new cars for 2021 or so and the teaser Z they showed does not look good...I was not a fan of the catfish mouth 370Z for that matter.
     
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  6. ShineKen

    ShineKen F1 World Champ
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  7. BMW.SauberF1Team

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    I love that gen RX7. Timeless design. The RX8 was a complete failure by comparison imo.
     
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  8. ShineKen

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    Personally, wasn’t a fan of the 350z either. But the one to get is the 380RS, which of course, was only available in Japan.
     
  9. BMW.SauberF1Team

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    I actually like the 350Z looks a lot. The 370z (the one that followed it and in production for 10+ years now) is the one I don't like...too bulky looking and strange lines like the headlights. I prefer a first year 350Z without any body kits including none of the Nismo stuff that makes it look cluttered.

    One of the reasons I like the 90s Japanese sports cars and early 2000s (350Z and S2000) are the very simple and clean lines.
     
  10. ShineKen

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    Are 370z’s hot sellers? I rarely see em on the road. Not nearly as much as when the 350z was new. I’m actually surprised the 370z is still going.
     
  11. ShineKen

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  12. BMW.SauberF1Team

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  13. 95spiderman

    95spiderman F1 World Champ
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  14. ShineKen

    ShineKen F1 World Champ
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    #39 ShineKen, May 30, 2020
    Last edited: May 30, 2020
    My Exige is natural-aspirated, which is what I prefer for simplicity. A stock Exige is not that impressive (to me). Stock for stock, I would say S2000 is the better car.

    Put $5-20k into both cars and you have a better comparison. Bolt-on mods like headers/exhaust. Suspension/brake upgrades. I think my Exige is a superb 4 cylinder car. Great aero, low weight, decent power, well balanced. Feels like a go-kart for the road. It’s up there (now). Night and day difference from stock.

    Where the S2000 shines is the visceral engine and shifter. We have the Ap1 engine which revs to 9k like a mother. You feel like you’re seated behind an engine that just wants to get wild. The precise mechanical revs resonate through your body. It’s pretty crazy. Shifter is smoother and better than the Exige for sure. People say it’s the best shifter ever. I see no flaws in it. Exige feels more like a gated shifter which requires more robotic precision, which is cool in its own way, but S2000 is the easier one to work with.

    The minimalism of the Exige makes it feel bare and visceral in that sense. But the motor is not as good as the S2000’s. It’s maybe 60-70% there. The S2000 engine, high revs, light-weight body, 50/50 weight ratio, and analog driving feel makes it one of the most visceral cars I’ve ever driven. It is more visceral than 95% of Ferraris. It’s a must-have car imho. Especially if youre a manual guy like me :).
     
  15. ShineKen

    ShineKen F1 World Champ
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    Combine an S2000 engine and shifter with a well put together Exige and you’ve discovered the fountain of youth. Hard to beat, hard to need more when it comes to a quintessential analog driving experience.
     
  16. 95spiderman

    95spiderman F1 World Champ
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    #41 95spiderman, May 31, 2020
    Last edited: May 31, 2020
    Many people felt lotus should have gone w that s2000 drivetrain from the beginning. There are engine swaps out there but many get ruined when owners start adding turbos and stuff.
    My sister in law had original s2000 and I remember being blown away by transmission and engines abitlity to rev but rest of car felt like a regular honda. I felt similarly about nsx but at least that had exotic looks.
    My rating from memory is 10/10 for honda on drivetrain but 6/10 rest of car with 2 of 6 just for convertible which I love. Lotus is 8/10 drivetrain and rest of car same 8 for better overall package. Only talking stock though, not modded
     
  17. ShineKen

    ShineKen F1 World Champ
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    From my personal experience with the NSX and the S2000, I much prefer the S2000. NSX is a very well-built car and as exotic as any car for it’s time, but the way it drives is “ok” for me. But I haven’t driven the later year model with the updated headlights. Also, as I mentioned, we don’t get the best iterations such as the NSX Type S Zero and NSX-R to get full experience. Same goes for an S2000. Best one we have is the CR out of the box. This is why people love to mod Japanese cars. More often than not, they’re not enough out of the box. Put some money into it for bolt-on mods (the right mods) outside of turbo/supercharger upgrades , take off some weight and you’ll end up with something special. Problem is the target market tends to get carried away and cars start looking “ricer” as most just have bad taste lol.

    In regards to the engine swap for the Exige, you are probably referring to the popular Honda K-series motor. I’ve considered it. It is an improvement over the Toyota motor with tons of after-market support. I wasn’t sure if it would de-value the car and I didn’t like the fact the engine covers are facing the wrong way. I also don’t think it’s as special as the S2000 motor. The S2000 engine has a unique sound I don’t think can be extracted out of a K-series.

    Our S2000 sounds almost like this lol


     
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  18. energy88

    energy88 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    That's a very important point you make that is easily and frequently overlooked.
     
  19. energy88

    energy88 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    I believe it is a styling thing now. IMHO, when Datsun became Nissan, they seemed to lose their styling mojo and were thereafter behind Honda/Acura and Mazda in appeal.

    Who knows whether the teaser 400Z will be appealing or not? The profile looks like they are returning to their Datsun roots, but, of course, we don't know yet how they will be handling details on the rest of the car, any one of which might be a disappointment or deal killer like happened to Toyota with the new Supra.

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  20. Tcar

    Tcar F1 Rookie

    Nissan was never Datsun. That was just a brand name for some of their export markets.
    The 240Z was the "Nissan Fairlady", not Datsun.
    The name had nothing to do with the design of Nissan's cars, IMO.
     
  21. energy88

    energy88 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Thanks for that technical clarification. Back in the day, I always thought that Datsun sounded kind of dorky.
     
  22. Tcar

    Tcar F1 Rookie

    Nissan thought that 'Nissan" sounded too Japanese....thinking of possible ill-feelings after WW2, which had only ended about a decade before, so they used another name for its (especially) US exports.... Datsun.

    It is thought that was also part of the reason Mr. Toyoda used the name Toyota, with a T for the automobile business. They had previously made Looms under 'Toyoda'.
     
  23. energy88

    energy88 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    And adding even a bit more trivia, the looming industry was their inspiration for the notorious Lexus "spindle grill."
     
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  24. Tcar

    Tcar F1 Rookie

    Post of the Week!
     
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