Williams F1 | Page 29 | FerrariChat

Williams F1

Discussion in 'F1' started by BJMoravek, Mar 3, 2011.

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  1. Flavio_C

    Flavio_C Formula 3
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    Well, truth to be told, Sauber is still Sauber Motorsport. I don't see a problem in having a "fantasy" name such as Alfa Romeo.
     
  2. Flavio_C

    Flavio_C Formula 3
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    I might be wrong but to me the main cause of difference is not only the language & proximity to France, but also because Geneve got very influenced by Marxism & and the 1968 movement, just as almost all of Western Europe. On the other hand, Zürich or even Ticino stayed somewhat immune to these crazy ideas. The results are very visible today: Romandie has the highest income tax rates and the highest unemployment rate.
     
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  3. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    So you would insult 2 famous F1 names in one go.

    I think Chapman must have turned in his grave when he saw what was done to his brand by Genii and Tony Fernandez a few years ago.
    There is no need to add to it !
     
  4. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Alfa Romeo is a typical case of unashamed brand abuse.
    First it was hijacked by FIAT and affixed on cars that had absolutely no DNA with the Milanese make.
    Now its logo is used by an indifferent racing team.
     
  5. Flavio_C

    Flavio_C Formula 3
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    Which FIATs had Alfa badges?
     
  6. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    It started soon after Alfa Romeo became part of the FIAT group.
    Instead of allowing Alfa to continue with its own engines, FIAT imposed FIAT engines under the bonnets of the Milanese cars.
    The Alfa Coupés and convertibles were discontinued and all Alfa became front-wheel drive, sharing many components with FIAT.
    In fact, the mid-range FIATs became labelled Alfa Romeo.
    At one point, FIAT put GM engines in Alfas!
    They even had a Nissan engine in an entry-level Alfa once !
    Entry-level and Alfa shouldn't even be in the same sentence !!!
     
  7. Nembo1777

    Nembo1777 F1 World Champ
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    This is not P & R, I was just saying I enjoy visiting Geneva very often. I actually don't have anything to do with Swiss people when in Geneva except shop and restaurant employees. They are very reserved like Swiss Germans. I could also tell you what I think about Swiss Germans, there are many reasons why they are so different beginning with totally different cultures, latin and Germanic. One just wasted over 5 years of my life on a project and cancelled without explanation or apology, just a tiny compensation, an uncouth gruff peasant in a suit, not the first time there.

    But let's go back on topic. I hope Williams can survive but the fall seems unstoppable and in this economy to find a buyer other than that Mazepin for yet another zillionaire son...
     
  8. Flavio_C

    Flavio_C Formula 3
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    I agree with most of what you say, but they made some cool FIAT-era Alfas, even though they were FWD: the 156, the 164 and the 166.
     
  9. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    For an Alfista, it was simply a tragedy to watch what FIAT did to Alfa Romeo and Lancia.
    FIAT didn't want to rescue these names, just to swallow them, capture their market (but they failed) and use their names.
    I remember when Alfa had a complete range of saloons, coupés, cabriolets, sport, with bodies designed by Ghia, Bertone, Pininfarina etc ...
    Alfa competed in international rallying, in DTM (beating Mercedes and BMW!), in endurance (they were world champion), etc ...
    Also remember that Alfa Romeo was at the origin of F1, winning the 2 first championships!
    The same can be said about Lancia ...
     
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  10. Ferrari 360 CS

    Ferrari 360 CS F1 Veteran

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    I don't really agree. Alfa were a maker of rather unremarkable cars before they were acquired by FIAT. 80's Alfa's rusted so quickly you could almost watch them rust, they have an awful reliability reputation and by most accounts the glory days of the 60's and 70's were gone. Was the 155 a good car, debatable, were the spider and GTV's better cars, yes, in fact I'd argue a GTV 3.0 was perhaps one of the better Alfa's built in the 25 years prior to its launch.
    In my view without FIAT, Alfa wouldn't be around today.

    Lancia...there I agree with you.
     
  11. pilotoCS

    pilotoCS F1 World Champ
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    If I were a buyer, I would not give a crap about the history of the team. I would be worrying about what it would take to drag the team out of the F1 basement and get back to the front of the bloody grid.
     
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  12. sp1der

    sp1der F1 Rookie

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    Just needs some decent leadership and a technical director that knows what he/she is doing
     
  13. DF1

    DF1 Two Time F1 World Champ

    They are starting with a dis-advantage. It will take more money than they are allowed to spend in the future I think.....................
     
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  14. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    I would have prefered that.

    It's better to fail honorably than to linger disgracefully.

    There are plenty of great makes that exist no more, but left a good memory.
     
  15. pilotoCS

    pilotoCS F1 World Champ
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    OK. If that's the case, I ask what's the point?
     
  16. pilotoCS

    pilotoCS F1 World Champ
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    Sorry, but I disagree. The current Alfa Romeo cars are quite good.
     
  17. 375+

    375+ F1 World Champ
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    It's a buyer's market, offer pennies on the pound.
     
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  18. 375+

    375+ F1 World Champ
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    Not possible for decades by any major manufacturer.
     
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  19. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    No?
    Have a look at Audi, Mercedes and BMW.

    They are still proposing ranges with sedans, estates, hatchbacks, SUVs, Coupés, and cabriolets, also front wheel drive, rear wheel drive, 4x4,
    The Germans have taken over the market the Italians have neglected.

    I remember when Alfa had 6cyl 2600cc sedan, coupé and cabriolet, also the Guilia and Guilietta in sedan, estate, then the Guilietta GT and the Guilia GT coupés and Junior, and also the Duetto cabriolet with a choice of engines.
    Lancia had the Fulvia, Flavia and Flaminia declined in sedans, coupé too, and some cabriolets.
    You could also have the Lancia Fulvia, Flavia and Flamina coupés Zagato.
    All of that is gone.

    In the early 60s, BMW produced only one car: a small 2-door with a motorcycle engine, look at them now!
    At the time Volkswagen only had one model: the Beetle.
    Now VW has a complete range; they own Audi, Lamborghini (ex-Chrysler!), SEAT (ex-FIAT!), SKODA, Porsche, plus Bentley and Bugatti!

    It looks like the Italians have been asleep during the last 4 decades!!
     
  20. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    You are welcome to disagree.
    I only gave my opinion, but your are entitled to yours.
     
  21. Flavio_C

    Flavio_C Formula 3
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    I agree 100%. But AFAIK, Alfa was almost bankrupt when FIAT bought it. Same for Lancia.

    Also, the 155, which was the model in which the almost "prototype" DTM was based, used the FIAT Tempra/FIAT Tipo platform.

    Lancia is a dead brand. The Y is the only model being produced and it is the same car for more than 10 years.
     
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  22. DeSoto

    DeSoto F1 Veteran

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    If there is life, there is hope.

    Many brands were nowhere at some point and managed to come back. And even handcuffed Alfa has done some memorable cars these last years, like the 4C or the Giulia QV.
     
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  23. pilotoCS

    pilotoCS F1 World Champ
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    Poor Lancia . . . I do feel sorry for them. They offered a re-badged Chrysler 300 as a ???? I forgot, but that was pathetic.
     
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  24. DF1

    DF1 Two Time F1 World Champ

    That is the question about F1 and its identity to the future. One the new regulations are not addressing. The pandemic is accelerating changes in many areas. F1 is attempting to change but focused on cost vs formulae. Its movement towards more spec-series is confusing given what it has stood for in the past. Unless the formula is successful in 2022 and 2023 I can see F1 becoming less relevant or attractive as an entity. Formula E is on the rise with tech and general trend of auto motivation formats not F1 in my opinion. I also am not stating I prefer Formula E at all.

    I hope F1 keeps its constructor/competitor identity it has been losing of late. With the top teams having so much influence around the series, smaller teams are not having the impact needed to deflect this. Aston Martin does not show me much for the future at all. A cheap stock buy but it languishes as a maker of cars and using the name for the team is about as impactful as using Caterham was recently. Luxury brands will struggle in the near term. Ferrari and Porsche will by and far be exceptions due to their brand strength. Aston LOL.....................no.

    The top teams will not allow their names to suffer to smaller teams who suffer fewer penalties in development system recently approved. When the world GDP develops again those recently approved cost factors will not last a Mercedes or Ferrari challenge at the FIA. They simply have too much influence. We say we want competiton but the recent rules approved are a re-enactment of old rules we did not like on this forum from what I recall. Budgets have no where to evolve but upward LOL.
     
  25. Isobel

    Isobel F1 World Champ

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    Elegance and refinement, specifically tailored to those who appreciate exclusive ownership one week at a time....
     
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