812 Gas Particle Filter question

For the American orders the cars built from approximately June onward are called the following model year. However the calendar date of January 1 2020 may be a more important build date. Hard to say with Ferrari as the V12 is a small percentage of what they sell. Maybe your Ferrari service manager has some insight as there have been conflicting statements about what Ferrari plans to do...
Allocations were scarce in the past for North America so maybe it is the Euro builds that had to be finished in 2019 and USA will continue as it is now for 2020 builds.

 

This is a very good question, and there are many of us wondering same. I feel same regarding inclusion of GPF on a new 812 - I wouldn't want it, for multiple reasons. I've spoken with numerous dealers, and they've spoken with numerous regional reps and even some sources at the factory. So far, there has been a complete mix of responses, resulting in no definitive answer as of yet.

 

To my understanding the stricter emission regulations in the EU apply from January 1st 2020 only for new models that a manufacturer introduces to the market (so called type approval). For cars that are already type approved before January 1st 2020 (such as the 812 that was type approved in 2017) this regulation is in effect from January 1st 2021 for new registrations (Source: https://www.adac.de/rund-ums-fahrzeug/abgas-diesel-fahrverbote/abgasnorm/euro-6d-temp/). the new law not only includes stricter emission regulations but also a on-board Fuel Consumption Monitoring that allows external read out. So the modifications needed to make the 812 pass the new regulations would need to be quite substantial (and expensive to develop).
Thus, as the 812 will have been in production for 4 years at the end of 2020 it seems more likely that Ferrari will not develop a DPF version, but may rather continue the current version and spider in 2020 and then stop EU (or global) 812/GTC V12 deliveries in January 2021. This seems quite likely as some posts and reports suggest that the 812 seems to be "sold out" in some EU marktes like the UK. My dealer (Germany) told me in January that it would be very difficult to order an 812 now (January 2019). I ordered mine in October 2017, expected delivery is 1st quarter of 2020 (I am a new customer).
In case Ferrari should decide to produce the 812 and the rumored 812 spider beyond 2020 (what I would not expect), they will probably introduce a DPF version soon, probably with the production start of the 812 spider later this year.

 

Based on reviewing the above, the 812 Spider would be a 'new registration' ...so, GPF certainly required.

However, I am leaning towards the following in regards to GPF on the 812 starting very soon:

https://corporate.ferrari.com/sites/ferrari15ipo/files/ferrari_nv_annual_report_12.31.2018.pdf

page 59:

Exhaust and evaporative emissions requirements
In 2007, the European Union adopted a series of updated standards for emissions of other air pollutants from passenger and light commercial vehicles, such as nitrogen oxides, carbon monoxide, hydrocarbons and particulates. These standards were phased in from September 2009 (Euro 5) and September 2014 (Euro 6) for passenger cars. In 2016, the European Union established that Euro 6 limits shall be evaluated through Real Driving Emissions (RDE) measurement procedure and a new test-cycle more representative of normal conditions of use (Worldwide Light Vehicles Test Procedure). SVMs (vehicle manufacturers with a worldwide annual production lower than 10,000 units) are required to be compliant with RDE standards starting from 2020 while non-SVMs have been required to comply with RDE standards starting from 2017. In 2018, the European Commission 60 issued Regulation 2018/1832 for the purpose of improving the emission type approval tests and procedures for light passenger and commercial vehicles, including those for in-service conformity and RDE and introducing devices for monitoring the consumption of fuel and electric energy. Under the new EU Regulation, which became applicable in January 2019, among other things, the extended documentation package provided by manufacturers to type approval authorities to describe Auxiliary Emission Strategies (AES) is no longer required to be kept confidential, and the decision whether to allow access to such documentation package is left to national authorities. In addition, the Regulation introduced a new methodology for checking In-Service Conformity (ISC) which includes RDE tests. Compliance is tested based on ISC checks performed by the manufacturer, the granting type approval authority (GTAA), and accredited laboratories or technical services. Test results will be publicly available; in addition, the GTAA will publish annual reports on the ISC checks performed, in order to improve transparency.

The above does not suggest existing Ferrari models have a further delay until 2021, and even it that were true, the 812 Spider would be a new model.

And, if you recall, many large EU car makers abandoned existing models rather than pursue conformation changes in September 2018, had your citation been in effect there would of been none of the concerns...

https://europe.autonews.com/article/20180809/ANE/180809791/automakers-pull-models-halt-output-as-wltp-deadline-roils-european-market

not to mention this might not of been happening:

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and don't forget :

China 6 regulations:

https://www.transportpolicy.net/standard/china-light-duty-emissions/

 

At present, the 812 has been in production for 2 model years (2018 and 2019), there were zero MY2017 812s produced:

https://corporate.ferrari.com//sites/ferrari15ipo/files/annual_report_ferrari_nv_12.31.2017_.pdf

MY2020 begins later this year and by the end of calendar 2020 the MY2021 812s will be in production, i.e. 4th model year, but only slightly more than 3 physical years of production (from late 2017, all of 2018, all of 2019, all of 2020)..

 

I believe Ferrari will probably produce some 2019 812 Spiders in order to be an existing model before 2020 and circumvent the 2020 GPF clause and the Spider will only be produced in 2019 (enough units to qualify) and 2020. This should keep it a relatively low production V12 Spider although if very profitable maybe they will fit the GPF in 2021 and continue production.

 

How can they do that since they only produce cars that are ordered and apparently no one can order an 812 Spider at this time? And, with the expected announcement date of Oct/Nov (a convertible on the precipice of winter in Italy is a curious date to utilize), not much time to produce cars 'to order' and remain as calendar 2019 production (new RDE rules begin for production 1/1/2020 per Ferrari's annual report from a few months ago)...

I think instead, all 812 Spider production will have GPF or, maybe, as an alternative, 812 Spider production is, for the first year, 'the rest of the world - without GPF' (along with 812 Coupe) and final year with GPF (i.e. 2021 being final model year due to many new changes occurring in EU mandates from 1/1/2022).

But, in any case, MY2020 812 production will apparently include new nannies, most notably, the mandated automatic emergency braking when travelling below 42mph(60kmph) or so:
https://jalopnik.com/forty-countries-agree-to-make-automatic-emergency-braki-1832646271

the 'unknowns' are (a) if it will be defeatable(user switchable), (b) included on production for non-conforming countries (such as USA) because it does require more sensors/cost, to that end, base msrp for USA MY2020 812's will be about $5300 more than MY2019, that increase could be to cover the costs with these new nannies and maybe GPF

 

Same happened to me last year in a rental Volvo XC60. A cross-arm came down in front of car at parking lot entrance. Car unexpectedly and automatically slammed on the brakes from speed of roughly 10 mph. Fortunately it was the rental car return lot where it happened, as I was happy to get out of that thing. I don't like cars taking control from me.

 

What is the problem with a GPF? I know on diesels they can cause issues with clogging but I would think gas would be much cleaner. Is it a sound thing or reliability?

 

Indeed + 1

 

I had that engage when distracted as well. However, I cannot say if it saved a tap because my closing speed was very low and my regain of attention was just prior to the auto brake. I can see that this feature could be beneficial.

That said, just yesterday I was parked a a grocery store. I placed the car in reverse and had my foot on the brake at a full stop viewing the rear view mirror prior to backing out. Just then a pedestrian walked across the front of the car from left to right and the auto brake engaged slamming the brake pedal to the floor with alarms going off. Just ridiculous as I was stationary with the foot holding the brake and the trans in reverse. Impossible for someone in front of the car to be in any danger. You have to remember that the OEMs do not program these features. They are done exclusively by the Tier 1 suppliers of the ECUs which sell these by the many millions to the OEMs. Production costs mandate common code.

 

Ferrari can produce cars without orders it’s a self imposed edict. They could produce 300 cars in a bunch of random configurations for dealers without orders and they would be sold immediately and qualify as 2019 production as long as they are produced during the 2019 calendar year allowing Ferrari to continue production without GPF in 2020.

 

Any updates on this?

 

Indeed !

Just learned in the past few hours that MY2021 812SF for USA will apparently include GPF devices:

this engine code appeared in MODIS today at USA dealer entering new 812SF order:

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F152DB 2P EURO6D GPF USA ADAS

 

What about any 2020 builds still out there or 2020 builds TO BE built that aren't 2021 technically? Any word on that?

 

If you have a car that is being built, have your dealer pull it up in MODIS and check the engine codes.

That is the best way to know.

Otherwise, I would speculate that it is possible for incomplete USA MY2020 812SF builds to include GPF simply because EU 812SF have already been confirmed.

Have not found any reports of USA 812SF with GPF...yet

 

My dealer’s salesperson and head mechanic, who had recently returned from Italy, said that the GPF will not be installed on 812 SF USA deliveries until production starts on the USA GTS, which had not yet begun and was not expected to until August. On the floor was a 2020 812 SF that had arrived in mid - March. No GPF.

FWIW, the mechanic said that one could easily discern whether a new Ferrari had the GPF by peering into the exhaust pipe. The presence of a honeycomb screen would indicate the car has GPF - as did the nearby F8.

 

That’s a handy tell
You don’t by chance have a pic, do you?

I presume it’s only present F plumbing, but it would be nice if other manufacturers had similarly apparent indicators.

 

Sorry, no pic.

 

Was the mechanic suggesting you could see the GPF?! I don't think that is correct. The GPF sits much further up the exhaust, near the engine. There is no way you'd see it by looking into the exhaust. See attached diagrams I received from a Ferrari dealership this week. Top one has GPF (note it's integrated w/ catalytic converter) and the lower one doesn't

The F dealer I spoke to also confirmed the rear boxes/silencers are the same pre and post GPF models so I don't see how peering into those would tell you anything about the GPF...?

 

No. No suggestion whatsoever that one can see the GPF. Just the honeycomb screen in the pipe, which the mechanic said comes with the GPF system and, aside from whatever purpose it serves, is a quick visual indicator to anyone who doesn’t otherwise know if the car has the GPF system.

 

I'm extremely thankful that my 2020 812 does not have the GPF!! Just delivered. To put others mind at ease, having the GPF on the V-12 does not tame the sound as much as the V-8 turbo F-8. I have personally heard to form this opinion.