Car suddenly stops running, runs again after 10 minutes. | Page 2 | FerrariChat

Car suddenly stops running, runs again after 10 minutes.

Discussion in '308/328' started by gjv, Sep 17, 2019.

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  1. kcabpilot

    kcabpilot Formula 3

    Apr 17, 2014
    1,527
    California SF bay area
    Full Name:
    Paul
    If you disconnect the safety plug on the fuel distributor then when or if this situation occurs again you will be able to determine by ear if the fuel pump is powered because it will run with the ignition switch on even though the engine is not turning over. You can use this diagnosis to at least determine for certain that it is or isn't the fuel pump circuit. My guess is that it is.
     
  2. gjv

    gjv Karting

    Feb 20, 2012
    173
    Georgia
    That is what I thought, thank you for confirming.
     
  3. gjv

    gjv Karting

    Feb 20, 2012
    173
    Georgia
    Great suggestion. I had not thought of that and will do that next time it happens.
     
  4. gjv

    gjv Karting

    Feb 20, 2012
    173
    Georgia
    Thank you! This is very helpful!
     
  5. spirot

    spirot F1 World Champ

    Dec 12, 2005
    14,500
    Atlanta
    Full Name:
    Tom Spiro
    Have you checked your vacuum hoses ?


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  6. Baltz1969

    Baltz1969 Karting

    Apr 24, 2017
    67
    Chula Vista, CA
    Full Name:
    Jose Baltz
  7. gjv

    gjv Karting

    Feb 20, 2012
    173
    Georgia
    It took me a while to get to driving my car again. I changed the fuel filter (just to be sure) and took the car for a drive. It ran fine for about 35 minutes and it instantly died again. Per your picture, I used my multi meter to see if the yellow 12v terminal had power. It did. It must be a fuel supply issue and will replace the fuel pump next. I also checked the fuse (my car has the improved Birdman fuse box) of the fuel pump spade connector was very hot (too hot to touch, and the relay was hot as well. Once the car cools down a bit it runs fine.
     
  8. gjv

    gjv Karting

    Feb 20, 2012
    173
    Georgia
    I was able to reproduce the problem at home and think the root cause might be with some electrical issues. When the car dies, with the ignition switch still in the "on" position, there is current to all the right pins in the diagnostic connector in the engine bay. However, after I turned the key to off and then back to "on", I did not get the usual seatbelt warning sound, nor did any of the lights in the instrument panel light up. The turn indicators won't work either, BUT the hazard switch does. Also the engine cranks normally (but won't fire). When leaving the key in the on position, the warning lights in the instrument panel slowly begin glowing after a while. I don't think it is a battery issue because the battery holds it's charge well and the engine cranks at normal speed when you turn the key. Have any of you experienced this? Is it a bad ignition switch? Maybe I have both a bad fuel pump and a bad ignition switch at the same time? Would the ignition switch be affected by temperature after driving for half an hour or so? Seems strange to me. These gremlins are frustrating. Thank you all for any help and or insights you can provide.
     
  9. gjv

    gjv Karting

    Feb 20, 2012
    173
    Georgia
    Guys, sorry or all the updates, but I think I found the issue (or one of them) . With the ignition key in the "on" position, I felt with my fingers under the dashboard at the back of my ignition switch and one of the connectors felt slightly loose. When I touched it an pushed it, my dashboard came to life immediately and the car also fired right up when I started it. I will go in and make sure that all those little connectors on the ignition switch are clean and tight. Now.. let's see if this fixes everything or if I still have an intermittent fuel pump issue.
     
    308 milano, thorn and Milkshaker0007 like this.
  10. gjv

    gjv Karting

    Feb 20, 2012
    173
    Georgia
    Ok. The electrical issue at the ignition switch has been solved, but the engine still suddenly dies after the car gets hot.
    1. I pulled the safety switch on the CIS and could hear the fuel pump running.
    2. I also have 12V at the coils.

    At this point, I assume that it is either the RPM or TDC sensors.
     
  11. 308 milano

    308 milano F1 Veteran

    Jan 15, 2007
    5,257
    Montana
    Full Name:
    Kim
    Swap out your fuel pump relay with another of the same type. In my case I used the flasher relay. Been chasing a similar issue for over a year. Once fuel reached the injectors it sprang to life, ran strong for over two hours before I put it back to bed . BUT my flashers became intermittent. 85 Euro QV
     
  12. gjv

    gjv Karting

    Feb 20, 2012
    173
    Georgia
    Will try. Mine is an 85 QV also (U.S. though)
     
    308 milano likes this.
  13. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
    5,827
    Isle of man- uk
    U as well !! Old age mate.
     
  14. kcabpilot

    kcabpilot Formula 3

    Apr 17, 2014
    1,527
    California SF bay area
    Full Name:
    Paul
    I think you already ruled out fuel pump and relay, you said it was running with the safety plug disconnected at the time the car wouldn't run.
     
    308 milano likes this.
  15. gjv

    gjv Karting

    Feb 20, 2012
    173
    Georgia
    Correct. I verified it today. I ran the car until it died. The I unplugged the safety valve and could hear the fuel pump running. When I cranked the car, it still wouldn’t fire even though the fuel pump was running. I Suspect the rpm sensor is the issue. I will swap the rpm sensor with one of the tdc sensors. If I’m right, the car should no longer die, but lose one bank when the issue occurs. If that happens I know it is the sensor for sure and I will replace all three of them.
     
    308 milano likes this.
  16. gjv

    gjv Karting

    Feb 20, 2012
    173
    Georgia
    I removed the RPM sensor. It is clearly very aged and has some minor cracks in the plastic at the end of the metal strips stop. I get a normal resistance reading of 720 Ohm from it (cold) and will replace all three sensors just in case. I hope this will fix my car. Once I have replaced all sensors I will report back.

    On a related note, by the way, there is nothing special about these sensors. I lived in Italy for 12 years, wronging for FIAT group (now FCA). These sensors were even mounted on the basic FIAT panda models as crank sensors. You can find them for $30 on Ebay in Europe.


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  17. Mule

    Mule F1 Rookie
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Jun 25, 2003
    3,749
    Alaska
    Full Name:
    Mule
    When I finally swapped my sensors, I noticed two things.

    On the 328, the front sensor is directly below the oil filter. It may have worked fine, but had a large layer of oily dirt on it, including the tip. Every oil change probably dripped some oil on it over the last 30 years. It certainly could explain why it was intermittent.

    But most importantly, after putting in the new sensors, all the other diagnostic repairs showed their worth. New wires, plugs, cleaning all the connectors, etc, all made the car run better than it ever had.

    Best of luck.
     
    Saabguy likes this.
  18. gjv

    gjv Karting

    Feb 20, 2012
    173
    Georgia
    I believe she is fixed! :) As I tackled several possible causes at the same time, I will unfortunately not know what the actual fix was, but my gut tells me that it was the rpm sensor (I changed all three), as the other two would only shut down one bank instead of the entire engine.

    Beyond the three tdc/rpm sensors, I did the following:
    - cleaned the ignition switch thoroughly with contact spray
    - cleaned the fuel pump spade connectors and relay connections with contact cleaner spray
    - cleaned the digiplex connectors and their ground wire connection
    - cleaned the wiring harness connectors in the engine bay (at the bulkhead across from the right side distributor)
    - cleaned the fuel pump ground connection

    I have not been able to take the car for a long drive yet, but she used to categorically shut down when hot after about 30 to 40 minutes, also while idling in the drive way. I just took her for a 5 mile drive and subsequently had her idle in the drive way for a full hour and she kept humming without a hiccup.

    Happy owner :)

    THANK you all for your suggestions and ideas. It was very helpful.
     
    Dane and miketuason like this.

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