488 Turbo | Page 2 | FerrariChat

488 Turbo

Discussion in '458 Italia/488/F8' started by Micheal Sanchez, May 16, 2020.

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  1. blkdiablo33

    blkdiablo33 F1 Rookie

    Jul 12, 2004
    4,349
    how many owners here on board have had concerns with there turbos this is the first ive seen a post of one
     
    Ash Patel likes this.
  2. Solid State

    Solid State F1 Veteran
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 4, 2014
    9,582
    Full Name:
    Maximus Decimus Meridius
    Just a matter of time. Thousands of RPM at glowing temperatures with big heat soak and after many years. And you have to rip the exhaust apart which really blows if you've ever done it. Cheap hp can be expensive in the long run.
     
    tbakowsky likes this.
  3. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky F1 World Champ
    Consultant Professional Ferrari Technician

    Sep 18, 2002
    19,344
    The Cold North
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    Tom
    Sorry..I live in Canada..so our price point is slightly higher then yours due the exchange rates etc..
     
    wrs likes this.
  4. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky F1 World Champ
    Consultant Professional Ferrari Technician

    Sep 18, 2002
    19,344
    The Cold North
    Full Name:
    Tom
    Nothing is BMW bad.. ;)
     
  5. flifer

    flifer Karting

    Mar 3, 2016
    160
    Miami
    Full Name:
    Mike
    Go figure, It was YOUR white 488 I saw sitting on the lift when I mentioned I saw a 488 getting a turbo replaced at my local indy shop...

    I'm not sure if it's just Miami car culture or what, but for some reason people down here treat their 6 figure cars like trash, even the local dealers!

    My advice to you is for free annual service in the future drive up to FLL instead of the collection. Not sure if it was just service advisor related but I've dealt with the collection many times over the years on various cars. For some reason when you take an exotic car to the collection they treat your car and you like trash. However, if you have a lesser car like a Jaguar you get so much better service.

    If I didn't have access to FLL for Ferrari service I would rather pay out of pocket on each service visit from a reputable shop vs get free service at the collection... I'm pretty sure after this fiasco you probably would do the same!
     
  6. mdrums

    mdrums Formula 3

    Jun 11, 2006
    2,172
    Tampa FL
    Is the car stock or tuned? Can you pull the service records for the car? Has a read out of minutes/hours at rpm been pulled from the computer? Would be interesting to know this history.
     
    SAFE4NOW likes this.
  7. AlfistaPortoghese

    AlfistaPortoghese Moderator
    Lifetime Rossa

    Mar 18, 2014
    3,778
    Europe, but not by much.
    Full Name:
    Nuno
    Turbos should last long if maintained and manufactured properly. Afterall, there are a few 208 Turbos out there. Just not all that sought-after, proving Solid State’s point I guess.

    Kind regards,

    Nuno.
     
    SAFE4NOW likes this.
  8. xav488

    xav488 Rookie

    Feb 10, 2019
    16
    Europe
    Hello, I have the same problem my car has 12.000km (+/-7900miles) and the LH turbo is down. I think Ferrari know the problem and they don’t want to assume that it’s not correct. It’s a faulty part .


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
  9. SVR

    SVR Karting

    Feb 9, 2017
    188
    Moscow, Russia
    It’s IHI turbos
    They don’t sold them directly
     
  10. SVR

    SVR Karting

    Feb 9, 2017
    188
    Moscow, Russia
    In 300.000 km long run, yes.
    Or it’s defective part from manufacturer, and you can change it under warranty.
    It is just another one part from hundreds engine parts.
     
  11. Micheal Sanchez

    BANNED

    May 16, 2020
    5
    Miami fl
    Full Name:
    Micheal sanchez
    Hello, yes from what I was able to find out this seems to be a common problem with the 488 because the oil supply line is very thin and Ferrari is not approving warranty if you are 50 miles over your scheduled service, I tried dealing with the dealership but it was a nightmare so I went to fiorino motorsports and Patrick diagnosed it immediately and labor was a fraction of what everyone else charged. I then purchased the part with Juan from E&D. In total I spent 9200 in parts and labor when the dealership was charging 15k just for the turbo.
     
    ScottS likes this.
  12. mdrums

    mdrums Formula 3

    Jun 11, 2006
    2,172
    Tampa FL
    This is a common problem with 488? THAT IS FUNNY....1st I have heard about turbo issues. the car has been out now for 5 years and never read about any issues with the turbo's on 488's nd when I was buying I saw some 7-10k and a few more miles...read everything on the forums (which I take with a grain of salt) and never saw a post about this
     
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  13. SAFE4NOW

    SAFE4NOW F1 Veteran
    Sponsor Owner

    Aug 25, 2004
    5,378
    Dallas Texas
    Full Name:
    If you know you know
    Ferrari SpA dictates what fluids are used during services and repairs. If a client insist , other fluids may be used, but that is usually well documented.
    Since the independent shop make such a bold claim, can he state for the record exactly what fluid WAS used? Did they have blackstone lab test the fluid that came out of the car?
    I'm also curious what the independent shop found as the actual cause of failure.

    You do know that the OP could have extended the factory warranty into the 4th and 5th year... that's an actual extension of the original 3 year bumper to bumper warranty.
    This is a Ferrari backed product, not sure how you or the " extensive thread " could have honestly come to the conclusion that its not worth it.. maybe I missed something?
    Now, if there is something not being shared about the OP situation, you are right, even the factory warranty would not have helped out
    ( Aftermarket ECU programming for example )


    I'm sorry to hear about your having the same problem, what did your dealership diagnose as the actual cause of the failed turbo?

    I am pretty well immersed in the Ferrari repair world, and I can say without hesitation, that 488 turbo failures are not a known problem... I will keep an ear and eye out for additional factual information though.

    You are correct though, it is a " faulty part " , the question is WHY did it fail in the first place.


    Common problem, how were you able to find this out? Did the independent shop tell you this?

    I have never heard of a factual case where Ferrari denied a repair because of being "50 miles over " a scheduled service.... could they , maybe, but that would set one heck of a legal precedent don't you think? Do you have this in writing?






    I know I am coming across really defensive in my replies here, but there is so much dis-information with no basis or factual support being thrown out there , I felt compelled to respond with the " other side " , could I be wrong, yes .... and I am willing to acknowledge it if I am, once the facts come out....

    I don't know it all , I learn something new every day. What I do know, is the ONE turbo failure I have first hand experience with , failed within seconds after cold start up, and RPM counter at time of failure was near red line... why did IT fail .... ?


    my .02 worth ... going to work now!

    Steve
     
  14. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Veteran

    May 29, 2019
    6,023
    Hopefully some place nice.
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    A.B
    Agreed. My dealer has yet to replace a turbo in a 488 or Pista, and they have a lot of them on the road and track. So far, everyone in the service department seems rather impressed with the durability of the turbos. They also seem to be very reliable in the Cali T and Porto.

    15k usd fitted seems very good actually. If you purchase new from Scuderia Car Parts, price is 9816 Euro without VAT per turbo. Yes, one can opt for a custom tune with aftermarket turbos, but one also has to remember that this will more than likely hurt resale significantly. Most buyers will not touch a car with a sustom tune and aftermarket engine mods. A few will like it and see the potential, but most will be discouraged. Also, while a set of Garrett turbos might make more power and even add reliability, it might also create lag and a less responsive power curve. Unless the OP is into the whole tuner thing and know of a reputable company that can fit them and tune them, stay away from aftermarket turbos.
     
  15. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Veteran

    May 29, 2019
    6,023
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    A.B
    At this stage I don't see the reasoning behind this. Yes, if you could document a general tendency of failures for these turbos, sure, but so far they seem very reliable. On the flip side of the N/A motors, you have to consider the strain and pain of a 458 engine running high compression and higher RPM. When will a piston or connecting rod fail? What about bearing temps? Valve failure? If you drop a valve in a 458 @ wot, you need a new engine as it will take out everything below the intake. There are pros and cons with both, and my personal experience is that high power N/A engines are more expensive to run in the long haul as they are harder strung. Don't forget that something like the larger cams will put a much greater load on both cam lobes, as well as valve springs, valve stems, valve tips, and locks. Cheap parts by themselves? Yep. But catastrophic when they fail. If you want to talk about longevity and what will come up in the future, I think it will be much more interesting to see how the TdF with its solid roller lifters will fair in the long run. Imagine the needle bearings in the rollers failing, which usually will block the oil passages. We don't know if this will happen, but it's something to consider. I know, I digress, but my point is just that we don't know the long term issues because it's too new, and turbos can hold up for a very long time if done properly. So too early for a verdict on the cost and reliability of these as they look to be strong runners so far.
     
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  16. SoCal to az

    SoCal to az F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 25, 2012
    14,209
    Arizona
    What’s your point? Ofcourse the factory warranty can be extended. That’s what an extended warranty is.

    In this one instance yes, the OP would have benefitted from an extended warranty. But how many blown turbos do you hear about on 488? This is the first time I’ve heard of it happening.

    These cars are basically bulletproof. I had close to 6000 miles on my 488 before I sold it and zero issues. Not a single one. And you see that over and over again with modern day Ferrari’s.

    If you want doe your own peace of mind to get an extended warranty- knock yourself out. But the chances of something breaking are so low, that in the long run it’s cheaper to just pay for the repair instead of paying for an extended warranty.
     
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  17. SAFE4NOW

    SAFE4NOW F1 Veteran
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    Aug 25, 2004
    5,378
    Dallas Texas
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    If you know you know

    My point is , that from my side of the table, and the amount of Ferrari I see in my shop on a monthly basis, those WITH warranty extensions or New Power Warranty get their money worth vs the pay as you go group. To each is own, I guess since I get to work with both sets of owners, I am also the one who gets to hear about how they wish they had purchased the warranty when given the option ... more often than ... the client who didn't get any value from it.

    Are modern Ferrari better than older, yes... no argument whatsoever. Does the leather start shrinking on modern cars more or less than older cars... from my experience, yes.. and a dash for a California T or 488 is pretty expensive. Sticky Trim... and the engine oil leak that requires the entire engine be removed to be resealed.. yeah.. more often than not. Just because you don't know there was oil leaking from the head gaskets, doesn't mean it wasn't there, prior to you selling your 488 off...

    Peace of mind has value, different owners give it different value,

    That's my point.


    Steve

    p.s. There is a difference between 4th and 5th year warranty EXTENSION AND 6th year on New Power Warranty products AND 3rd party extended warranty
    But that's for another thread.
     
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  18. SoCal to az

    SoCal to az F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 25, 2012
    14,209
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    You have a biased group that you are dealing with. You by your profession work on cars that are not functioning properly. Ofcourse those people wish they had warranty. But how many thousands, tens of thousands of cars dont have any issues at all. How many of those people do you get to talk to? Well, many of them chimed in on the aforementioned discussion. The vast majority felt that there was no reason to get an extended warranty and if problems arose they would pay for them out of pocket. I fall in that category.

    Someone wants to get an extended warranty- knock your self out to the tune of 5k a year. Chances are you won't need it.
     
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  19. Solid State

    Solid State F1 Veteran
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    Feb 4, 2014
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    Maximus Decimus Meridius
    We are in agreement in our understanding on engine design, risk and wear. Pistons and cams in the modern NA engine are of no concern. Most of these engines are high polished and DLC coated on piston skirts and tappets. Compression ratio part of a very reliable engine design. The turbos are not part of the engine. They are part of the exhaust (see parts fiche). They spin over 10K rpm and run at red hot temperatures. They wear and they break. So does all the ancillaries like inter-coolers, plumbing, clamps, sensors, etc. An NA engine has none of it and therefore, if designed properly as Ferrari is the best at, is the simpler and thus more reliable system. And you don't have to deal with ripping apart corroded and heat fused exhaust parts and gaskets and all that entails.

    Solid lifters are a bad idea in a street engine especially one that gets seldom use and no hydraulic tappet to collect oil for dry start. I have them in my race bikes with titanium intake vales, stainless exhaust valves and soft alloy seats. Everything DLC coated (cryo-finishing an option) .Best performance and worst longevity and high maintenance. One re-shim then valve replacement or they will break and toss the engine. That's at +13K prm though.

    I think you can safely assume by the time you get to the Nth owner, the turbo pain will be felt. For me that is a big issue with a used car. Anything going in an NA engine by that time will also likely go in the turbo engine as well so best to avoid turbo complexity IMO.
     
  20. xav488

    xav488 Rookie

    Feb 10, 2019
    16
    Europe
    I can confirm to you that there are other cases . Another member in the belgium club Ferrari had the same problem. And in this forum also another had the problem. Search 488 turbo failure on the forum (At 1000miles..).
     
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  21. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Veteran

    May 29, 2019
    6,023
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    A.B
    I don't think anybody is disputing the fact that there has been some who have had issues. The problem is when people start calling it frequent and common. You know about two cases - one local and one here, but that's not the same as it being a common issue. Like with most other things, you hear about the few where it goes bad, but you rarely hear about the ones without issues - because for them there's nothing to report. What's the point in coming on here starting a thread about not having issues with turbos. There isn't one, and thus such a thread is not likely to happen. But at some point, someone will have a failure of something and it will get posted, and in the wake of that there will be speculation about whether or not it's something to worry about. Time will tell, but currently the 488 turbos seem to be doing just fine. I don't think it's worth starting a thread or debate about 458 hub bearings despite the fact that I know of two cars where the bearings seized up. Sometimes things happen, and these being fairly high strung performance cars which people tend to push harder than the average car, means that once in a while stuff breaks. That's life, and cars can be fixed. Now if we see compressor wheels starting to disintegrate like 430 manifolds cracking sending pieces of compressor wheels into the engine on a regular basis, then there's cause for alarm. A few broken turbos over the range of 200000+ cars? Not a common issue or cause for alarm.
     
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  22. xav488

    xav488 Rookie

    Feb 10, 2019
    16
    Europe

    I can confirm to you that there are other cases . Another member in the belgium club Ferrari where I’m member had the same problem. And in this forum also another had the problem. Ferrari Power warranty don’t cover the turbo ... my car is out of the 3years manufacture warranty since 1year . I take an expert to begin the procedure with Ferrari and dealer. Sorry but at this few kilometers it’s not normal, car was always serviced at Ferrari , all the warming and cooling times are more than respected. You can not change turbo before you change tires or brake pads... They must change the part free of charge, no problem to pay the labour but the parts must be changed, it’s faulty. They check the turbo on the right (passenger side) and it’s in perfect state. The left defect have big problem on the axis, there is important play on the axis. (Sorry for my English).


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
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  23. xav488

    xav488 Rookie

    Feb 10, 2019
    16
    Europe
    I don’t know but in my case the services where done at perfect timing as recommended by the dealer at the dealer and always some kilometers/miles before car ask for service/maintenance. I love the car it’s a very good car but this turbo problem is disturbing with 0 support, not cool.


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
  24. tfazio

    tfazio Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 20, 2004
    1,968
    Michigan
    Michael, I am sorry you are dealing with this.

    Were there any known issues with your 488 before you purchased it? If I am reading this correctly the car is still under warranty? Was the car ever serviced at a Ferrari dealer during its first 3 years of being on the road? There is an unlimited mileage warranty for the first 3 years. I am not understanding the part where you say 50 miles over your scheduled service? Normally Ferrari is most concerned that the annual service takes place in a certain time span for it to be free. Normally time comes into play versus the number of miles driven since let's face it the majority of Ferrari owners do not put more than 5K Miles on their car in a given year. Any info you feel comfortable providing would be appreciated.
     
  25. xav488

    xav488 Rookie

    Feb 10, 2019
    16
    Europe
    We will see but a lot of people who have problems not necessary come on forum to explain it. Here in belgium the other one had at 11.000km exactly the same problem so I don’t think it’s coincidence. May be some cars have something faulty but sure mine have it and now turbo was sent to insurance to dismount and diagnose in details .. we will see . The answer that I receive at the dealer was :”it’s normal, turbo is a consumable “ sorry but I’m not a clown I earn money but not to put it in the trash ! I had some Porsche before , one of them was 997 Turbo and sold it at more than 70.000 km never had any problem with Turbocharger. All the cooling and warming are always more than respected with all my cars. Have nice evening .


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
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