Is it possible to use ethanol with Ferrari 355? What about Gasoline 91?

If by ethanol, you mean gasoline with 10% ethanol, yes, it seems fine to run fine for modern Ferraris here in Phoenix, where this fuel is sold much of the year. Most people here also say that 91 octane premium is fine for late-model Fcars. Are you thinking of buying a Ferrari?

 

The 10% you get in pump fuel in some states is fine. Engine modification would be necessary to run E85.

 

We only have 91 octane here in CA and no one reports issues. We might not see the max published HP in our cars, but no one can testify to this for sure. The octane boosters and fuel additives change the burn characteristics of gasoline and it all gets messy. I do want to try burning some 100 octane mixed with 91 to about 95 to see if I get some benefit from that. I guess I need to start saving up for some 100 octane leaded racing fuel. Wonder what that costs now...

 

That sucks for you CA boys I can go to the local gas station right around the corner and get 100 octane gas last time I check it was last year some time and it was 5 something a gallon. Has to be around 6 now.

 

I was just thinking about Hydrogen. The tide is turning...

 

Up in Canada only 91-92 I would love to try 100

 

You should have a Sunoco ............. They have 94

 

On the east coast (at least near Philadelphia, PA) Sunoco changed Ultra to 93 (from 94) and Premium for all the gas stations turned to 92 instead of the 93 that it used to be. I know for a lot of the country Premium is 91 so I guess the right coast still has an advantage.

Sunoco's "Race Fuel" is only sold at a few locations, is street legal, and is 100 octane. Don't know the price - to pricey for me and it wouldn't give you a cost effective benefit unless you had a custom tune or your car was already pinging. You could argue about specific density and the engery given per unit of volume but that's grasping at straws if you purly drive your car on the road.

 

Interesting reading for you and ALL you ever wanted to know about fuel, alternate additives, (real!) octane boosters, etc.

http://www.repairfaq.org/filipg/AUTO/F_Gasoline.html

 

In the UK shell vpower is 98 octane as is BP. The premium fuel from tesco (our little version of walmart) is 99!
But at nearly £1.30 a litre a bit pricey nowadays.

 

Here in Brazil our regular gasoline has 22% ethanol content, ~95 RON octane. I'm not sure if any modifications are done to Ferraris to accept this fuel. There are many independent vehicle importers that do not modify the engines or fuel mapping in any way and the cars run OK. My opinion is gasoline powered cars that use fuels containing ethanol will run OK up to the point where the O2 sensor will inform the ECU to enrich the fuel mixture to compensate for the entanol content. The biggest problem is that ethanol is corosive to the fuel tanks, lines, fuel rails, etc... factory flex-fuel cars are protected against this type of corosion.

 

??????? That's news to me, thanks I will check

 

Out of curiosity is ethanol free okay?

We have locally:
93 unleaded 10% ethanol
91 ethanol free
...and of course the 87-89 low-mid grade

 

Of course I only use ethanol free in my cars it may destroy the gasket on your fuel pumps. I avoid it for my other old cars too.

 

Do you mean that Ethanol fuel may destroy the gasket? I knew it attracted water and may cause corrosion but wow... hmm

 

Yup.

I'm sure if you searched here you'll find examples but here's one from you tubes.

 

You can see the ethanol effects here. Just did my pumps.

https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/index.php?posts/147031404

Sent using FerrariChat.com mobile pp

 

Since my 348 came into the country in July 2017, it has only had ethanol-free fuel here in Seattle. Luckily, I have a place right by my house that's "car guy famous" for selling ethanol free fuels.

I just redid the fuel pump in a 1991 Lancia Thema 16v Turbo I picked up cheap. It had come from Japan a couple years back and never ran once it got here. Frankly, I don't see how it ran even in Japan. Ferrarium, that Lancia fuel pump disintegration made yours look minor. It was nuts..the rubber pump holder was completely disintegrated--there was nothing left, and the amount of broken down rubber inside the plastic housing and inside the tank was insane.

Car is running great now. I used a new Syntec fuel pump and rebuilt the thing with new tubing, etc. Not sure if Japan uses ethanol or not--but there is no way all of that damage happened in the two years of the car not running while it was sitting once it got to the US.

 

A few years ago I did my pumps - the rubber boots looked similar to yours, probably worse, and my 12k miles at the time 348 had never seen Ethanol.

I don't now what exact effect Ethanol in the petrol has on rubber but petrol itself certainly affects it badly over time. On the other hand, adding about 10% Ethyl alcohol to petrol has the following benefits:

1. In the case of seldom used cars, moisture will condensate inside the tank and sit at the bottom (causing corrosion of whatever metal it comes in contact with). Water will, as we know, not mix with petrol and will stay in the tank unless it is drained out. When Ethanol is added, the three (petrol, Ethanol, water) become "miscible" so the accumulated water is dispersed throughout the fuel mass and it will be "burned" in the engine, i.e. eliminated from the tank and the fuel system. So, Ethanol is actually removing water from the tank and the fuel system, not introducing.

2. The (relatively small amount) of water that is burned in the engine as part of the mix with the fuel (petrol & alcohol), is believed to produce some "steam cleaning" of the combustion chambers thus removing some of the carbon deposits.

Another good thing I recently discovered about Ethyl alcohol was when I finally started working on my Saab 9-5 which had been sitting for 5-6 years without running and with about 3/4 full tank. The fuel pump was "frozen" solid and when I removed the pump assembly, the white plastic bowl and all other components, including obviously the inside of the pump, were well coated with sticky yellow gum that extracted itself from the petrol. Tried all kinds of solvents to remove it (petrol, paint thinner, acetone, 99% isopropyl alcohol) but nothing worked. Then, I tried with simple Ethyl alcohol and was surprised to see that it dissolved the gum easily. As I also had a lot of the yellow gum all over the inside of the (plastic) tank, many patches of which were floating in the small amount of petrol at the bottom, which would have entered the new pump and the fuel system, I proceeded cleaning the gum in the tank which, luckily, was possible through the large fuel pump opening at the top centre of the tank, conveniently located just under the back seat. Many rags and litres of Ethyl alcohol, and my arm inside the tank to the shoulder, did the job (don't ask me about the fumes of petrol and alcohol).

So, I believe that some Ethyl alcohol (Ethanol) in the fuel, in addition to preventing accumulation of water, will also prevent the fuel pumps from sticking (due to the yellow gum) when left not running for a longer period of time.

 

98 PULP BP ultimate here in Australia nothing else for me. Or Shell VPower 98 PULP.

 

Are you suggesting storing a car with Ethanol is better than conventional gas? I will have to disagree. That is a terrible idea. Ethanol has an affinity for water and will phase separate and gunk up the entire tank. No stabilizer can prevent it. If you leave any type of fuel in a tank for years it will break down. If you fill a tank with conventional fuel and add stabilizer it will always last way longer than ethanol.

If you have an old car it has varnish in the fuel system. That is natural. The yellow gum you speak about. When you put in ethanol it cleans the varnish and plugs up the fuel system. That is why all the gas stations had to replace their tanks prior to using Ethanol. Not to mention not all fuel lines are resistant to ethanol fuel. I never use ethanol in any vehicle or equipment that sits for any length of time. I use conventional fuel with Stabil. I have lots of equipment that sits idle for months, and rarely if ever have fuel issues. I do not suggest storing ethanol longer than a month or two, and I dont recommend using it in old stuff. Just ask any lawn mower shop or boat mechanic about ethanol fuel. It has advantages, but stability and compatibilty are not included in its merits.

 

I see your points. As for the yellow varnish, since Ethanol dissolves it, it should not plug-up the system but carry it out through burning in the engine. Same happens to any accumulated water (prior to introduction of Ethanol) sitting at the bottom of the tank.

I had a "sticky" fuel level sensor in one of my cars for years. The needle would go all over the place, especially when below half tank. I recently ran a tank of petrol to which I added 10% Ethanol and the fuel gauge works very well now. Seems that Ethanol has de-gummed the the sensor arm and the variable resistor wire.

So, it appears that having a run with Ethanol only from time to time, and finish it in a shorter period of time, can be beneficial to the fuel system but avoid keeping it in the tank for any extended periods of time.

 

Yes, i would avoid keeping ethanol in the tank for extended time. Ethanol is a solvent so that would make sense with your fuel gauge. I haven't had the experience of it completely dissolving varnish. I have had the experience of it breaking varnish loose and plugging up fuel filters and carbs. If you have an old car and you plan on swapping it over to ethanol fuel I would completely redo the entire fuel system.

I restored a 77 FJ40 several years ago that sat for many years. New fuel tank, rubber lines, blew out the hard lines and new carb. Fuel got low and my only choice was ethanol. I put in a few gallons and by the time I got home (few miles) it was running like crap. Carb had specs of trash in it. Maybe I should have soaked the hard line in ethanol or some other solvent. The hard line was from the fuel pump to the carb, after the flter. That is the only place I can think the trash would have come from as the filter was clean and everything else was new.

My experience with long term storage has led me to add stabil, fill the tank all the way up with conventional fuel and put a note in the vehicle with the date of the fuel. Time goes by fast and my mind forgets! I drain any fuel after a year and burn it in other stuff.