Questions about the Mondial as a daily driver

Hello.
I'll be happy to add to your confirmation bias. I have had an 85 QV coupe for 6 years and have put about 35,000 kilometers (20,000 mi) on in that time. Most of those miles have come from 1 or 2 long trips a year of 2 to 4,000 kilometers each. It is an absolute peach on those trips. I have driven 10 straight hours without feeling any driver tiredness at all. I have the regular seats which to me fit perfectly for those long drives. But then,I look forward to every drive, long or short.

And I do drive it locally to stores though where I live, you cant really call it big city driving. . And while I dont call it or use it as a daily driver, it easily performs in traffic. A small group of us did a week in northern Italy in our Mondis...talk about traffic...and it was not a problem at all with start and stop and waiting and slow moving. I dont mind the shifting, the clutch is firm but not tiring. There are some things I think make it better in that I have replaced the TRX's with Michelins which makes the handling easier in my opinion and of course gives improved traction in the wet. The biggest problem is parallel parking as without the power steering, you really do have to muscle it from lock to lock. I recently drove a T with power steering and sure it made it easier in that sense, but I strongly prefer the road feel when moving with the non PS in my car. By the way, it was a T cab and I did not have a problem with conversation but we never were driving at interstate speed.

You clearly are a wrench guy, I am not. So I have had mechanics do all the replacement stuff done that is mentioned on this post and site: new fuse box, the relay direct to the starter (imperative and inexpensive), new AC compressor with 134 (blows very cold), all the maintenance stuff you know about, window mechanism cleaned and regreased with a booster put in the driver side, 2nd fan installed (they come standard on 3.2) and radiator recored and never have an overheating problem even with AC in summer.. So all that you can anticipate. I had a new radio put in when I bought it and have probably used it only a couple times. You would need to add better speakers if you really want to drive with it on at speed...especially if you drive at 100 mph. Even with a coupe, there will be road and motor noise with the engine just behind you but hey, that's part of the joy and I dont get beat up by it on the long trips.

Here in france the interstate speed is about 80 mph and I rarely go over it. I mean, it is a 35 year old car and why put that much extra strain on the old motor. At that speed the tach is at about 4500 revs and though there is a long way still to go in the revs, I'm just not that interested in pushing it that much. That said, the motors in these cars are highly dependable and durable.

On a great road at high speed, it is absolutely stable. There is no wind affect on it at all even when passing trucks or on viaducts. You are just glued to the road and you know about its great handling characteristics on winding roads where it is a joy. After all, these cars were designed to be family friendly grand tourers to get their clientele from one place in Europe to another, through small villages and big towns, in comfort and style at speed, and it does that magnificently. It is not a "sports car" for boy racers, which is why I prefer it (especially since I'm an old boy)..

Given your clarification about your daily driving needs with it mostly not standing in traffic and 4 long trips a year, I think you will find it very usable as long as you dont mind the mileage going up and ensuring the regular maintenance is done. My biggest concern for you would be the street parking and exposure to the elements. The paint on our Mondi's is not the best (never pressure wash), not a concern when garaged all the time. But the affects of sitting in the sun and elements might degrade it. A good constant waxing and car cover would be necassry. I also think the battery cover would be imperative. I dont have one and do worry a bit when it sits overnight in rain but it has never been a problem. I dont worry about the motor getting wet. If you drive in the rain, its going to get wet anyway and if you have the electronics in good shape, should not have to worry. I guess that means a really good car cover that allows it to breathe but yet keeps the moisture off.

And as you have said, if it does not work for you, you can sell it on and chalk up the experience. But it will be hard to not enjoy the experience of driving it and that's how we all feel about our Mondials. I am admittedly and happily biased.

In my opinion, given your intended use, the 3.2 would likely be better for you. It has a bit more power and other enhancements/refinements. With that, as stated in one of the earlier posts, I do prefer the original Pininfarina design with the black bumpers but that's a taste thing. Too bad you are not in Europe, there are lots of coupes available here though except for Swiss versions, all with no cats.

Good luck to you in your search and decision.
Gerald

 

One thing I don't think anyone has mentioned yet is the oil capacity and the time it takes to get the engine up to temp. I have an air-cooled 911 that I use regularly -- it's as reliable as my wife's Toyota. But it's not really suitable for short drives because it takes abut 5 miles of driving to get the 11 or so quarts of oil up to temp. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but the Mondials and 308's also have a dry sump system, no? And so I would think that the key to longevity would also be avoiding the kind of short drives that are usually part of 'daily driver' use.

 

One additional thing to add, if you would be doing your own wrenching. The Cab (QV / 3.2) has a removable access panel in the interior where you can access the right side cylinder bank, looking from the front of the engine. I have never had a need to remove mine since taking possession of the car two years ago. But it seems there are times it could come in handy. The Coupe doesn't have this access panel on the rear shelf.

 

I just changed all 8 plugs on my 87 cab. That panel comes in VERY handy!

 

The 308/328 engines are wet sump engines.

 

It takes about 20-25 minutes of driving to get my engine and gear box up to temperature.


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Gerald is right on the money. I’ve driven about 25k miles in my Mondi. I have driven it to work multiple times on nice days. I’ve driven it to the beach 3 hours away. I’ve driven it through cities. It’s been great. The top is way too much effort to deal with during inclement weather. So on nice days, it’s fun all the time, but does take some time to warm up. I routinely do the 1st to 3rd shifting thing in the morning out of the house. The A/C is fair to poor at best and with the radiator up front and the engine behind, the cabin is not that pleasant on hot days. It’s extremely dependable once sorted. I have spent a ton to keep her running pristine, money well spent. I’ve broken down twice in 12 years, both times early on, and went into a limp mode once. The clutch and more specifically the slave do need replacing. But the engine is quite bulletproof. I think the Mondi is a true hidden gem amongst its brethren.

 

Just from the photos it also looks like new door sills and brake rotors, neither particularly problematic in themselves, but possibly indicative of other things. For example, when was the brake fluid flushed last, and what is the condition of the hydraulic system overall? And four new TRX tires aren't cheap.

General comment: it's a shame these things all seem to end up in the hands of dealers. I'm sure if you politely pointed out all of the things that had to be done to sort out the car and how much it would cost, and made a reasonable offer based on that, they would just rather sell the car the unsuspecting customer who wants to drive way with a cheap Ferrari.

 

I love this!!! So good.... thanks for putting it out there Paul.

Also.... I'm getting closer to be able to pick up my 83 QV from service! Finally some progress. COVID played havoc with getting some parts, and the shop repairing the gas tanks (we had to pull them bc of leak) only recently reopened. But I am hoping to have this beauty and be driving it in the next few weeks!!!

 

I previously owned a '84 QV Cabriolet and currently own a '83 QV coupe. My experience is this -

A) Wind noise in the cab is substantial and talking at speed requires a bit of a raised voice. Ferrari's have loud engines compared to a lot of cars and the wind noise adds to it. But for me this was an intoxicating combo.

B) I agree with Paul Chua here. Prone to small leaks but I think if you devoted time and money to it you could probably get it tight.

C) Mechanically I think any of the Mondial models are robust enough to handle daily driving and traffic conditions. Some people will complain about the lack of power steering but if you're used to driving older cars you'll be fine.

D) A lot of the A/C's in these cars are dead by now. When they're working or restored I think they're fine. Some people feel they don't blow directly on the driver. I've never cared that much. Also there are so many third party upgraded AC options now that can be put into these cars, it's really just another issue of spending the time and money to fix it.

E) All the engines are tough and my cab was bulletproof. I think the idea that Ferrari's "like to be driven" and behave better when they get regular exercise is true.

I owned my cabriolet in a sunny coastal California town, where it was perfect. I rarely had to put up the top. The soft top on the Cab really is a pain in the butt to put up and down. You have to think about it and fold it correctly. Putting it up by yourself is a big hassle. Contrast that to the Fiat 2000 Spyder I drove as my daily - you could flip the top down from inside the car with one hand...while driving!

The Mondial coupe will obviously be much better at keeping you dry. Based on those things, you might want to consider the coupe.

 

Thank you @Matthew 6:19 - I appreciate your kind words. I hope that you are back on the road soon. The Mondial is a gem, that is only truly known by the lucky few. Make sure you check out John Pogson's review of his Mondial QV



But what does he know?

He's only a 6 time British Ferrari Champion.

(I only listen to 7-time Champions, none of this 6-time winner nonsense. pfht.)

 

Just one quick additional note on whether or not the Mondial can be a good daily driver. My answer is absolutely but I think this really is a very subjective question. The answer entirely depends on what your expectations are.

Back in the 80's a friend of my Dad's daily drove a Daytona Spyder. Sitting in traffic, stop and go traffic, parking lots, parallel parking, the whole deal. Put a ton of miles on it. Real miles, not "Ferrari miles". Parked it with the top down all over the place. He did this for years, and even at the time it was a $150k car....or about $425k today with inflation. Values aside, most people will tell you that Daytona's steer like WWII trucks, so heavy in feel they make the heavy clutch seem light. As a result they'll tell you that they are really only usable as long distance touring cars on long, straight, open roads, and that anything else is a misery. But to my Dad's friend, it was a perfect daily driver, because he loved driving it. He had other cars, but he loved the Daytona, so the "issues" were just quirks to him that he learned how to work around, while they would have been prohibitive to others.

The Mondial was a brand new car while he was doing this, and was (and is) much more "driveable" than the Daytona. So it really just depends on what you're used to, I think. If all you drive is cars with auto everything then the Mondial will feel foreign and possibly inconvenient. If you are used to older cars, or are the type who can adjust your driving and expectations of modern convenience to the cars needs and limitations, then I think it's a perfect daily car. I intend to daily drive my QV when we land back on the west coast, even though I have BMW X1 that is only a few years old and technically a much easier car to drive.

 

This is great, it's been quite the education. I am relatively new here , but here's my 2 cents. I have owned my 82 Mondial 8 Coupe for about 4 years and have put about 6000 miles on it. Definitely not daily driver. My other cars are 1976 911s, 1957 MB 190Sl, 1991 Figaro, and 2015 Volvo v70 R-Design. I am also on the east coast.

1) No Power Steering - This is really only a problem if you do a lot parallel parking. This wouldn't be a good NYC car.
2) The coupe is rather quiet with the windows up. Not like my new volvo but very reasonable to have a conversation. I wouldn't recommend opening the sunroof though, a little dodgy and chances are you won't get it closed...I pulled the switch. There are much more coupes if you go older.
3) The windows are SLOW - putting down the windows everytime gets tiring. If you get one, upgrade the window motor mechanism, it is a common complaint.
4) Rain - the biggest issue I would see is the wipers are SUPER slow. I have had to drive in the rain and they go quite slow. I rarely drive in the rain, but if I was going DD, this would be on my short list to update.
5) AC - mine worked the day I bought it, and then didn't like a week later. It stays dead. However, it is a rare day that it is too hot in my neck of the woods.
6) The engine has been running great. I am doing my first belt replacement. So far so good. One reason I liked the 8 was the design but I also liked not having to take the engine out for this.
7) Driving experience - I was really quite pleased on the driving experience and the quality of the build. For a 1982, it is really quite remarkable. It isn't "chuckable" like the 911s, but it is a much nicer drive...more civilized so an upgrade to the go cart without disconnecting you like a new car.
8) Engine Note I haven't found any problem, my longest ride was 4 hours driving the 2 hour drive from the hamptons. Sitting in stop and go traffic on a 100F day was not fun. Hose exploded on the George Washington Bridge was even less fun. The repair however wasn't bad.
9) Reliability - Its been pretty reliable given the age and the fact that I didn't do a overall replacement of older parts that needed seeing to. The hoses needed doing and I procrastinated. The only other repair was the clutch slave cylinder which was a REALLY easy job. That's it so far other than maintenance. I do all my own repairs on all my cars, its doable, don't let it scare you. Its just an engine... Plus there are resources to fix it here and on the web.
10) About ferraris - what I have learned is ferrari doesn't think about the how the car is going to be repaired. I am astonished how often I am taking off a part and I think to myself how the hell do they get a wrench in there? It is MUCH worse than the Mercedes and the Porsche. That said, the 1982 engine reminds me of my 1976 Porsche 2.7 engine regarding the bosch injection.
11) Go for it - if it doesn't work out, who cares, you had fun anyway. It isn't your only car so if you are laid up for a little while you have other options.

 

Compared to other manual steering cars I've driven, I don't think the Mondial is that heavy. I remember thinking at the time it was about the same as the Fiat, although I'd guess the Fiat was a lighter car.

I have the OEM Michelin TRX tires on my car, but I'm told you can lessen the weight of the power steering by converting to non-metric wheels and tires. Apparently it can give you access to tires with better grip as well (although the TRX always seem fine to me).

 

Just a brief follow up to your concern here. I wouldn't overthink this. We are being as open and honest as we can to give you information about the niggly-est things given your intended usage. The clutch heft is really a non issue, not really a big deal at all given your driving experience though a long way away from a beetle for sure. You'll be paying far more attention to shifting in the H gate. It's not something you can speed shift through. It's more like a two step process, out of one gear into neutral, then click into the next gear. As far as parallel parking, I do it regularly here in Europe with spaces far smaller than in the US. Changing out of TRXs helped but you just go for it and it gets done. As with all non PS cars, once they are moving even slightly, it gets easier.

Regarding the window speed, the problem is rarely the motor itself but the hardened grease on the cable and drive mechanism. There are several threads here (including one I posted) on cleaning them. My passenger one worked great, the driver side better but still not so fast. So I bought the booster available from Superformance and installed that and both now work just fine. The same problem affects the sun roof. I've not cleaned it and only open it when the car has been sitting in the sun and the grease has softened a bit and then I help it with my hand. But like I said, my AC blows cold so if it is really hot, I drive buttoned up anyway.

 

I made a lowball offer (22K) but added a comment that I'd be willing to negotiate if they could establish that there was no significant corrosion. I figured they'd get back to me and tell me that there's only some surface rust, maybe with a selective photo or two where things didn't look too bad, then with a 30K counter offer. instead I got no reply. That suggests to me that the rust is really serious. Or they're happy just to collect storage fees and have a Ferrari in their showroom.

 

Insert 400i 5-speed here.