When are we going to see carbon tub Ferraris?

Nice article of the importance of carbon fibre for Ferrari:

https://magazine.ferrari.com/en/cars/2020/04/14/news/black-fibre-masters-78624/

 

I have tracked all my Ferraris and now the McLaren and hands down the McLaren is a better performance car and the carbon tub is an integral part of it. After 30+ years at the Ferrari alter, I have to admit, from a performance standpoint there is a better show in town and the boys from Maranello have some work to do.

 

Ferrari are holding off until they can buy some discounted tubs at an insolvency auction near Woking pretty soon...

 

Not far off .....
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/149439/mclaren-could-mortgage-factory-and-historic-cars
.

 

Crack up an Alfa 4C and the insurance company will wright it off instantly. Happend to a customer of mine.

The accident didnt appear that bad either. But because just inspecting the tub for damage requires taking the entire car apart, and even then no chance of safely repairing it other then complete replacment.. parts plus labor out values the car. So off it went for scrap. Way to much liability.

There are more and more insurance companies refusing coverage on these exotic carbon tub cars because of the costs involved in repairing them.

Perhaps this is the reason why Ferrari has stuck with aluminum for so long. Could be a very smart business move at then end of the day.

 

In the meanwhile even Maserati went for an carbon tub with the MC20. It is a V6 powered car but so will the F8 successor. In that scenario the Maserati seems to be the more exotic car than the Ferrari equivalent.

 

It's true, hopefully, the next models come into the 21st century. The sole reason for me is cost. (as in they would make 'less' money on each unit)

Just my speculation.

 

I’m not an expert in this area but from what I understand the Alfa and Maserati carbon tubs produced by Adler near Naples are manufactured in same way as full blown F1 tubs (highly labour intense) whereas the McLaren and Lambo tubs are made in an more industrialized though compromised process. I would see the cost issue if Ferrari says the compromised approach is not the right thing to go for them while the real deal is too expensive in this price range. However, even carbon specialists like Dallara come up with full carbon cars for a friction of the price of an F8.

 

I think they would still make money, just instead of say 90K per unit, 70K per unit (totally made up) but I think you know what I mean.

 

Totally agree.
I would even argue that let’s say an F8 could sell at much higher price premium if the car made use of a carbon tub.

 

I can say with confidence that my 4c spider has absolutely no flex when driving the twisties in the mountain. Immediately driving my 458 coupe on the same road after the 4c, the difference in the body flex is astoundingly apparent. Moreover, the CF tub of alfa is made by the same company that makes Bugatti's CF tub, and the Alfa 4c spider is only selling for 80+. It can't be that expensive.

probably some other reason F8 does not have carbon.

 

isn’t the Bugatti tub produced by Dallara ?

 

yes. I was quite surprised as well.

"cars such as the Alfa Romeo 4C and the Bugatti Chiron are built around Dallara-engineered carbon tubs."

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a15075999/dallara-stradale-debuts-a-huge-racing-name-builds-a-street-car-news/

"PLATFORM: Developed by Dallara Automobili in Italy, the 4C platform may be unique"

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a15115760/2014-alfa-romeo-4c-25-cars-worth-waiting-for-20142017-future-cars/

 

Dallara was involved in the engineering part of the 4C tub. The production itself however took place at the Adler plant in Airola (near Naples). That' where the MC20 tub also comes from.

 

Ok
The LaFerrari tub remains a great industrial mystery for me.
Gestione sportiva or Adler ?

 

LaF tubs were made in Gestione Sportiva, as opposed to the the Enzo tubs which were sourced from A.T.R. Group (Colonnella, Italy)

LaF tub:


Enzo tub:
https://www.compositesworld.com/articles/innovative-composite-design-may-replace-aluminum-chassis

4C tub:
http://www.adlergroup.it/

 

Ok so
Engineering gestione sportiva
Production scaglietti ?

 

Engineering and production at Gestione Sportiva. In the video I shared it is described that the LaF tub makes use of the same hand-laying processes as well as the same autoclaves to be used for F1 chassis.

The final assembly of the body in grey (carbon tub + the aluminum sub frames + body panels and doors) takes place at Scaglietti.

 

thanks for the clarification!

 

If anything, metals deteriorate over a long period of time. Composite parts might last forever.

 

New story in TOFM featuring the carbon bulkhead which is part of the SF90 chassis. They seem to be very proud of this piece as outlined in the story. Let's hope it's the first step towards a full carbon tub in a range model.
The beauty within (ferrari.com)

Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

It is interesting that Ferrari mates carbon panels with aluminium chassis. But this is surely a more cost effective and modular approach than producing full carbon chassis.

One thing I'm curious about is that can you actually make more room inside the cabin by sticking with aluminium frame? Surely the carbon chassis is lighter and more rigid, but it needs to be also shaped differently.

Also it is not as cost effective to modify it, in a case you want to make model specific alterations to take advantage of increased dimensions.

Does carbon work sound wise in chassis as well as aluminium or can there be resonating noises like in carbon bicycles?

 

Thank you to all your contribution! It was very interesting!