Sorting out my 360- fuel smell, bad mounts, dirty p/s fluid | FerrariChat

Sorting out my 360- fuel smell, bad mounts, dirty p/s fluid

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by osuav8r, May 4, 2020.

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  1. osuav8r

    osuav8r Karting

    Feb 16, 2005
    142
    Houston, TX
    Full Name:
    Alan
    Hi guys,

    I bought a 360 Spider from a well known Ferrari dealership and paid a fair price for what I thought would be a thoroughly sorted car that wouldn't need anything. As it turns out, it has some of the common issues for 360's and I'm working through them one by one. I already replaced the MAF sensors to fix a check engine light.

    While driving with my dad a couple weeks ago, he took a hard left corner and we suddenly smelled a strong gasoline smell. We pulled over and investigated but couldn't see any direct evidence of where it might be coming from. I'm suspecting rollover valves/seals on the passenger side.

    #1 I bought a smoke machine to diagnose the fuel smell and injected smoke into the left Disaerator via the short rubber coupling where the non factory, screw drive hose clamp is in the picture while capping the plastic line. The only smoke I saw was pouring out of the ON/Off valve thats mounted to the front side of the charcoal canister. I initially thought that this might be the source of the problem, but upon some reading, I gather that it's normally open when the car is off and closes when the car is on. It does close when power is applied with a power probe. I read that the on/off valve is a good place to inject smoke to test the entire system, but my smoke machine started acting up before I could inject smoke there. Do I need to actuate any of the other valves in the system with a power probe to get a valid smoke test? Also, should the on/off valve be open when the car is at rest?


    #2 While I have the car on the lift with the inspection panels and fender liners out, I saw that the motor mount on the left side looks sacked out. I've attached a picture so you can see it. It is my understanding that the rubber bumpers on the end should not be touching the metal body of the mount, but should normally have an air gap. Is this correct? Ie, are my mounts shot? The car judders slightly when reversing, but otherwise there are no vibration issues that I can tell.

    #3 The power steering fluid looks muddy. Functionally, the steering works perfectly. I was thinking about draining the reservoir, taking the return (smaller) line off and attaching a length of hose into a bucket, starting the car and pouring new fluid in the reservoir with the return port capped off to bleed out the old fluid. Is this the best way and is there a commonly available fluid that works well in these power steering systems?

    It's a US market car and I'm in Houston, TX if that makes any difference.



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  2. gphodge

    gphodge Karting
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 15, 2010
    144
    Washington
    #2 gphodge, May 4, 2020
    Last edited: May 4, 2020
    I bought a pair of these about a month ago to have on hand, offered $187 and done. Hope this helps, as to the steering fluid swap I believe most just turn the steering wheel back and fourth watching the fluid level and topping it off as it goes down until the fluid looks clean out the return hose you want to disconnect. You will have to get the front tires of the car off the ground which you can do on your lift to achieve this.

    There was a write up about the fluid flush here.
    https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/diy-power-steering-fluid-flush.620929/#post-147185158

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/Ferrari-360-Motor-Engine-Mount-Support-182142-PAIR-set-2-/400363668893?vxp=mtr&hash=item5d3788c59d
     
  3. osuav8r

    osuav8r Karting

    Feb 16, 2005
    142
    Houston, TX
    Full Name:
    Alan
    Thanks for the link about the power steering fluid flush. That's very helpful and I'll probably wind up doing it that way. Right now I'm still fighting issues with my smoke machine and found out that it's flattening the battery before I can get a good test. I guess my bench test battery is shot, so I'm charging up the battery from my lawnmower and my borescope camera to hopefully get a good test and be able to pinpoint the leak.

    I was wondering if someone could give me an opinion of how my mounts look. It looks like it's not a huge deal to replace them so I may just do it while I have everything apart, but wanted to see if you guys think they're bad first.
     
  4. gphodge

    gphodge Karting
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 15, 2010
    144
    Washington
    If you do not have any record of the mounts ever being changed then they are shot along with the transmission one. If you are smelling fuel you might want to start looking at the roll over valves and see if they are still original or not on the fuel tanks as they are prone to cracking and leaking. There are 4 of them 2 per tank. Or maybe possible fuel pump as they are known to go as well if original.

    https://www.ricambiamerica.com/car-diagrams/ferrari/v6-v8/360-group/360-spider/fuel-tanks-and-union.html
     
  5. gphodge

    gphodge Karting
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 15, 2010
    144
    Washington
  6. Ferrari Tech

    Ferrari Tech Formula 3

    Mar 5, 2010
    1,114
    Georgia
    Full Name:
    Wade Williams
    The outer pad can be touching, and the mounts still be effective. Can you feel the engine at idle? It is very distinctive vibration when the mounts are shot.
     
  7. zstyle

    zstyle Formula Junior

    Jun 28, 2007
    531
    Fountain Hills
    Full Name:
    Jon
    Be sure to check the fuel pumps, since they will eventually crack and leak at the distributor plastic plate, and the roll over valves. Both are accessed when the convertible top is removed.
     
  8. osuav8r

    osuav8r Karting

    Feb 16, 2005
    142
    Houston, TX
    Full Name:
    Alan
    I ordered new pumps and rollover valves for the fuel system. I bled the power steering using the procedure gphodge linked to in post #2 and refilled with Dexron VI like it specified, but when I turn the wheel lock to lock, I hear the pump whining a lot when it gets near the limits. As I was flushing it out, I think I might have run the reservoir dry for a few seconds before I had a chance to refill it. Now I'm wondering if Dexron VI is the stuff to use. The system doesn't seem happy right now, but it may just still have air in it. I turned it lock to lock probably 10 times though. I stopped trying because I didn't want to damage the pump. Any thoughts?
     
  9. osuav8r

    osuav8r Karting

    Feb 16, 2005
    142
    Houston, TX
    Full Name:
    Alan
    You don't feel the engine vibrating at idle. I've worked on cars a lot and I'd notice. I'm just going by how they look. They look a little tired, but I haven't noticed any ill effects yet.
     
  10. Neil22

    Neil22 Karting
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 4, 2018
    209
    Oxford CT
    Full Name:
    Neil Silberkleit
    I purchased a 360 spider from a dealer as well - when the car arrive it would not pass emissions because of a check engine light.
    Turns out after smoking the system it was the rollover valves - this required removal of the top since there is no access holes.
    Thanks god they were willing to pay for the repair 2K later I had 4 brand new valves :)

    if you are smoking the system yourself try removing the access covers for the fuel pumps to see if there is smoke trapped under the convertible top.
    When the dealer tested my car it was hard to see :(
    if your roll over valve are leaking the car should have a CLE light with a code for a vacuum leak.

    There is lots of heat generated and after years all the plastic parts become brittle and early break with vibration or movement.

    I found several other items that were bad on the car over the winter including the rear transmission mount.
    There are some really good threads on replacement, I suggest getting the Hill Engineering tool - even with the tool you will need press out the center and make a relief cut to get it out. Take your time its a bear.
     
    osuav8r likes this.
  11. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky F1 World Champ
    Consultant Professional Ferrari Technician

    Sep 18, 2002
    19,344
    The Cold North
    Full Name:
    Tom
    Trans mount is a real bugger..I hate doing those. Heat is your friend here..
     
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