360 - Need help with performing Drive Cycle - Sacramento, CA | FerrariChat

360 Need help with performing Drive Cycle - Sacramento, CA

Discussion in '360/430' started by RLO1, May 1, 2020.

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  1. RLO1

    RLO1 Rookie

    Apr 17, 2020
    13
    Hi everyone,
    I recently purchased an out of state 360. The car was previously a CA car about 10 years ago. Long story short, I need to register the vehicle and obviously that requires a smog check in CA. I took it to a smog shop and when they plugged in the OBDII reader, it returned a "Cat Not Ready" code, everything else was OK, although the EVAP was intermittent for some reason, they were ok with that, but not the cat not being ready. I tried the FNA recommended drive cycle to no avail. Is there anyone in Sacramento that might be able to provide some assistance? I'm considering just handing it over to a shop to do it, but does anyone know if they actually do this as a service?
     
  2. Need4Spd

    Need4Spd F1 Veteran

    Feb 24, 2007
    6,644
    Silicon Valley
    I don’t think they can use computer tools to force monitor readiness. They would just drive the car, which you could do yourself. Are you sure you followed the drive cycle precisely and started with a cold car that sat overnight? If so, there may be a fault that’s preventing the readiness setting, in which case the fault (perhaps an O2 sensor?) will need to be corrected, then the car driven to set the monitors.


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  3. RLO1

    RLO1 Rookie

    Apr 17, 2020
    13
    I did. However, on the retry, I did not reset the battery. Does that have to be done each and every time?
     
  4. RLO1

    RLO1 Rookie

    Apr 17, 2020
    13
    Another question, does anyone in the area know of an independent shop that also does smog tests?
     
  5. 74dino246gts

    74dino246gts Karting

    Aug 6, 2004
    126
    Northern California
    RLO1, Sent you a PM.
     
  6. Need4Spd

    Need4Spd F1 Veteran

    Feb 24, 2007
    6,644
    Silicon Valley
    If by “reset the battery,” you mean turning the disconnect switch in the trunk, no, don’t do that or all the monitors will go to a “not ready” state. If you’re sure you’ve done the cycle correctly, twice now, you should seek help to determine if there is a faulty component.


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  7. AD170

    AD170 Karting

    Jul 18, 2014
    78
    Does the vehicle have the original exhaust manifolds and Cats (not aftermarket)? That could be causing the issue (non-OEM) parts. Purchase a OBD II Scan Tool that can display Live Data , all manufacturers that sell cars in the US must be able to have certain Live Data available in the Generic side of ODB II. There are two sides to OBD II, Generic or Global OBD II and Enhanced or Manufacturers OBD II. Any OBD II Scan Tool can read Generic ODB II. You can use the tool on all your cars to read the Monitors to make they show complete and no DTC's before you go to get your Smog Check, so you don't waste 50 bucks on a failed check and get labeled a Gross Polluter.
    When you connect the Scan Tool, read the Bank 1 Sensor 2 or Bank 2 Sensor 2 Live Data with the vehicle running and warmed up, is it steady at roughly 550mv or does it cycle up and down 200mv to 800mv. If it cycles you have a bad Cat. That is what the ECM is looking at to determine a failed Cat. The vehicle has two ECM's, one will say 11 the other 14, the 11 is the passenger ECM and 14 is the drivers side.
    One last thing, don't go to a Smog shop that cheats on the check. CARB is very aggressive on enforcement, remember it goes by VIN number. The fine is 10 to 20k and they could confiscate the vehicle.
     
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  8. RLO1

    RLO1 Rookie

    Apr 17, 2020
    13
    All stock equipment. And yes, I have an OBD2 reader that streams live to my phone via bluetooth. I talked to a local shop here (Strada and Corsa) and they advised to drive at exactly 59 mph for as long as it takes until it goes away.
     
  9. AD170

    AD170 Karting

    Jul 18, 2014
    78
    The Cat will set pretty quickly, something must be going on with your O2 sensors. What are your Short Term and Long Term Fuel Trims at idle and at 3000 rpm as you drive down the road. Should be +/- 10 %. Add the two together to arrive at the number. The O2 sensor monitors must run and pass before the Cat runs but something is stopping the Cat from using the O2 sensors. The answer is in the Live Data in Generic OBD II. Don't throw parts at the problem.
     
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  10. Need4Spd

    Need4Spd F1 Veteran

    Feb 24, 2007
    6,644
    Silicon Valley
    I agree. The tough one to get a ready indication on is usually the secondary air, not the catalyst monitor.


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  11. AD170

    AD170 Karting

    Jul 18, 2014
    78
    The Secondary Air is a pretty simple system. It's purpose at cold start-ups is to get the Cat to light off as quick as possible for cold start emissions. The Feds some time back wanted the car companies to reduce cold start HC emissions. The Air System dumps air into the exhaust manifolds to get the Cat up to operating temperature as quick as possible so it can reduce bad emissions. The pump only operates for a few minutes at cold start and then shuts off. The system consists of the air pump at the left corner, the two diverter valves near the exhaust manifolds, the vacuum solenoids under the intake tubes, the secondary tubes at the manifolds and associated lines and wires. The ECM turns on the pump at cold start and then turns on the solenoids which allow vacuum to open the diverter, which then allows the air to the secondary tubes. Once the pump turns off after warmup, it turns back on for about 10 seconds for its monitor check. When you dump more air into the exhaust, it will cause the air fuel mixture to go lean, the ECM is either looking at fuel trims or the O2 sensors to drive lean to confirm the system is operating properly. I don't know which one it's looking at but it's looking at some parameter to confirm air flow. Sooo....the problem could be the air pump, a leak in the lines, solenoids not working, bad diverter valve , a blockage in the tubes., whatever parameter the ECM is looking at to determine flow is giving false info or a bad ECM.
    Secondary Air Systems are going away, with GDI systems, the ECM turns on the fuel injector at cold start during the exhaust stroke to spray fuel into the cylinder to get the Cat to operating temperature.
     
  12. Need4Spd

    Need4Spd F1 Veteran

    Feb 24, 2007
    6,644
    Silicon Valley
    Good explanation. The complex nature of the system is why it’s difficult to get it to “ready”.


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  13. SRLC716

    SRLC716 Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Sep 15, 2019
    285
    Buffalo
    Full Name:
    Sam
    Need4Speed just articulated the very battle I’ve been fighting for the last 4 days with my independent tech (and close friend although he may not want to admit it after this adventure)!

    We did find the drives did solenoid seemed to be stuck closed thus preventing the air pump from pushing air into the exhaust. We pulled the solenoid, vacuum tested it, cleaned it thoroughly, lubricated it, and now are waiting until tomorrow morning to cold start and see if the air pump related monitor resets properly after 4 min idle and drive.

    Fingers crossed!


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  14. Need4Spd

    Need4Spd F1 Veteran

    Feb 24, 2007
    6,644
    Silicon Valley
    Sounds like you found it! Good luck with the drive tomorrow!


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  15. carguy007

    carguy007 Formula Junior

    Apr 24, 2013
    839
    Are you referring to the secondary air pump when you say the "solenoid seemed to be stuck"? I have the exact same issue in which everything is setting but the secondary air pump and cat are not.

    Should I be hearing the secondary air pump when the car starts? Thanks for any help or advice.
     
  16. SRLC716

    SRLC716 Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Sep 15, 2019
    285
    Buffalo
    Full Name:
    Sam
    Correct, the secondary air pump. There is a relay for each bank that allows vacuum to go to a solenoid/valve on each bank. This solenoid opens and allows air to be pumped into the exhaust.

    We tested the passenger side relay and solenoid; both worked and we could hear/feel the solenoid/valve clicking open when we put power to the relay.

    When we tested the drivers side we couldn’t hear or feel it the solenoid open, but know for sure the relay works. So we took the solenoid off the car and cleaned and lubricated it thoroughly. Then we vacuum tested it and it seems good as new.

    I’m not yet sure this is my issue. But I’ve got my fingers crossed! I’ll update later today once I know.


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  17. carguy007

    carguy007 Formula Junior

    Apr 24, 2013
    839
    Cool - thanks for the clarification. Do you hear a the actual secondary air pump when the car starts from cold. It is in the rear corner drivers side. I start my car and run back there, but do not hear anything and am not sure how long it even runs.

    Can anyone hear there's? I definitely hear the f1 pump when I uncluck the car.
     
  18. RLO1

    RLO1 Rookie

    Apr 17, 2020
    13
    Update: I drove it for about 8 miles at 59 MPH. Shut it off, and restarted, and everything set to ready.
     
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  19. fotostars

    fotostars Formula Junior

    Feb 6, 2015
    341
    Bay Area
    If you don’t hear an obvious pump when the car starts from cold, you should debug that. It’s definitely something that you can’t miss and it runs for a while after engine starts (minutes). You can actually see the pump and touch it in the back rear driver side in the engine bay tucked under the fender behind the rear lights. Maybe yours is super quiet (mine is whining) so feel with your hand if it’s running.
    If nothing happens there, start with the relay/fuse and take from there.


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