Expert Witness Needed (dimunition/wreck) | FerrariChat

Expert Witness Needed (dimunition/wreck)

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by David Lind, Nov 24, 2010.

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  1. David Lind

    David Lind Formula 3

    Nov 19, 2008
    2,248
    Full Name:
    David Lind
    I have a 1988 1/2 Mondial 3.2 coupe, which is a daily driver. Several months ago, someone scraped the rear bumper cover on the driver's side under the parking light. The bumper cover was removed and repainted. In my damage suit, I have alleged diminished vehicle value due to the incident, because my car had never been wrecked. Does anyone know of an expert witness who can testify as to the diminished value (or lack thereof)?
    Thanks!
     
  2. SMS

    SMS F1 Veteran

    Jan 7, 2004
    6,772
    Indy
    Full Name:
    Bill S.
    How "daily" is it as a daily driver? That might dimish the value more than a properly documented bumper cover repair. E.G. pics that is was just a scrape before the repair and not a wreck etc... likely would not hurt your residual value.


    Second thought, the car IS now worthless and you should discount it significantly, because I happen to be looking for an 88ish coupe! :)
     
  3. Kds

    Kds F1 World Champ

    #3 Kds, Nov 24, 2010
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2010
    People don't usually like my opinion on this matter........

    It's not a Duesenberg or a 250 GTO.........IMHO you have no diminished value claim whatsoever. Not slagging Mondials either..........it's a bumper cover scratch that was repainted on a <$30K car, so if you had any 3X8 or a 412, etc, I'd say the same thing..........as a car dealer I wouldn't think twice about it when appraising it as a trade in or reselling it.

    Frame damage, major panel repair, or sheet metal replacement is a totally different issue all together.
     
    ewright likes this.
  4. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary Owner

    Oct 23, 2002
    32,118
    Full Name:
    Jim Glickenhaus
    Ditto.
     
  5. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Dec 6, 2002
    79,143
    Houston, Texas
    Full Name:
    Bubba
    #5 BigTex, Nov 24, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I'll share what an insurance adjuster told me once:

    "We know how all you Ferrari owners drive, we figure ALL of them have had an incident or two...."

    Then he gave me a $500 allowance for "custom graphics" to redo that part (my kid's handprints)..

    Is this minor claim even going to show on CARFAX or anything???

    Another quote from the Authorized Ferrari Repair Center:

    "We'll fix your damage properly, there IS no loss in value.."

    Food for thought.
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  6. Kenny94945

    Kenny94945 Karting

    Nov 1, 2003
    201
    Marin Calif
    Bumper repaint (not pointing out front or rear) on an F car is to common and could be referred to as maintenance. That is what I would argue against you and I think a judge would agree based on my vision of the evidence presentation.

    Further, as above, the Mondial is not appreciating especially with daily driver use. Strike two. Broken windshield could have the same DV case.

    Unfortunately, I think experts will cost more than the DV you might collect.

    Now...sell the car now and prove the diminished value difference. Using the fact that a damaged or repainted panel on a car makes it have zero value to you and you must liquidate it. Yet, is this true? Should have done this before the car was even repaired to make the case though.

    If the color matches and you are happy with the Mondial, talk with the adjuster for the $500 allowance for something. Since it is a bumper, with no welding or replacement of original parts, a daily driver, and unsure if one can "eat off the undercarriage" I am not able to offer anything to add up to a $10K DV claim.

    Just some "food for thought"

    Good luck; I love DV case information.
     
  7. Jeff328

    Jeff328 Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Sep 5, 2006
    2,293
    WI
    Jesus, a lawsuit over a repainted bumper cover? For diminished value???

    That's absolutely crazy.
     
  8. amenasce

    amenasce Three Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 17, 2001
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    Full Name:
    Joe Mansion
    I can see reasons for a suit if Asbestos was found when you removed the bumper but other than that, it's nuts.
     
  9. SloW8

    SloW8 Formula Junior

    Jan 16, 2010
    345
    Post some pictures of the scrape so we can see how bad it was. Was it merely a flesh wound or did it cause damage under the skin? Are you really talking about something that was cosmetic?

    Who did the repair work? Was it your cousin Bob who took a body class in high school? Was it a reputable shop?

    Most importantly, If your above average enthusiast looks at the repair will he be able to tell that it was fixed? As long as it is quality work, well documented, all original parts were used and there was never any structural damage I don't think you have a claim, other than the cost of the repair.
     
  10. muk_yan_jong

    muk_yan_jong Formula Junior

    Oct 11, 2008
    535
    Full Name:
    Brian McK
    #10 muk_yan_jong, Nov 24, 2010
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2010
    Same kinda thing like the guys who say that their Ferrari has never been rained on and expect more money for that "selling point."

    Believe me when I say that your car:

    Got rained on while it sat at the factory.
    Was driven HARD in the rain (and possibly even harder on Fiorano) when it was waiting to leave.
    Got rained on (and sometimes worse) while it sat at the port.

    Bumper repaints and restorations (especially on the lower fronts of all modern Fs) have zero diminishing value as long as they are not done on the cheap by a colorblind shop.

    If it truly is a daily driver, worse is going to happen and I wouldn't worry about fixing it unless you are ready to sell AND the new owner has to have it fixed.
     
  11. technom3

    technom3 F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Mar 29, 2007
    14,728
    Phoenix AZ
    Full Name:
    Justin
    I agree with everyone with what everyone is saying.

    If its a scrape, there will be no issue with diminished value because of the scrape or even if you just had them repainted due to... say peeling or fading etc...

    What I would have the largest problem with is if there was an accident report filed. No matter what that is going to hit the autocheck/carfax. Those reports are what is going to hurt the resaleability of your car. Because people here bad carfax and write the car off... and most don't dig any deeper. If an accident report was not filed... i would make sure the insurance company never submits anything to carfax and autocheck etc... then I would call it square. Keep in mind I am not trying to say cover up the carfax... i mean if your rear quarter was smashed in etc... then i don't think they should not submit the info... but for a scrape on a bumper cover... it shouldn't even show on the carfax.

    now for the catch... when you sell it disclose regardless of the what the carfax said... what happened to the car. Have the before picture and of course the repair bill to help justify your case. Doing this should allow any sane person to buy your car... even regardless of the carfax.
     
  12. David Lind

    David Lind Formula 3

    Nov 19, 2008
    2,248
    Full Name:
    David Lind
    Thanks for the interesting replies, and keep them coming. And, BTW, sorry about the misspellings!
     
  13. SMS

    SMS F1 Veteran

    Jan 7, 2004
    6,772
    Indy
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    Bill S.
    You guys have all just totally killed my chances of snagging this 88 coupe cheap. Now ixnay on the aluvay issue.
     
  14. Miami4me

    Miami4me Rookie

    Aug 30, 2019
    5
    Miami
    I'm resurrecting an old thread because I can't believe there's not more info on this. A puddle of water pulled off the rear bumper cover of my Cali 30--12K miles and driven weekly. It was a knife through my heart. My first thought was that any repair will likely diminish its value by $10K, as soon as an incident is reported to CarFax. I just got my online insurance estimate for $5,500. Frankly, a $20K repair wound not have shocked me.

    It may be too late, but the math says I should pay to fix it myself. I'm happy to disclose this when the day inevitably comes. Would I be throwing money away, and should I treat this like a repair to any other car? It's like losing the car's virginity. I want to keep her pure, and protect her reputation.
     
  15. A348W

    A348W Formula 3

    Jun 28, 2017
    1,741
    North Wiltshire, UK
    If it works like over here; it’s too late as you told your insurance company to get your quote. Your premium will also likely go up irrespective if you claim or not. Nope; not fair.

    Whilst these are our pride and joy; they are just cars.

    good luck
     
  16. Themaven

    Themaven F1 Rookie

    Nov 2, 2014
    4,252
    Eastdown
    Full Name:
    Darius
    It seems that in the US system, if you inform your insurers or get even a parking scrape or rash on the front bumper repainted, without telling insurers. it gets registered on Carfax and your car is tainted (harder to sell) and has diminished value forever. Which seems to be the OP's issue, and I sympathise. I mean, who cares if the car you're buying has a perfectly repaired front wing which had been scraped by Grandma's Acura in the parking lot in 2012.

    Here in the UK, damage only shows up on the records if it's been a) claimed on insurance and also b) resulted in a writeoff - salvage, I think, in the US.

    In much of Europe there is no way at all to check on a system whether the car you're looking at was bent in two by a 32 tonne truck five years ago, although official dealer systems sometimes do communicate. A Ferrari dealer in the UK was able to tell me that a 550 I looked at in France had been badly damaged and presented for repair to a main dealer in France 15 years previous.
     
  17. Miami4me

    Miami4me Rookie

    Aug 30, 2019
    5
    Miami
    You’re probably correct, on all counts. It’s too late, it’s not fair, and they are indeed just cars. :-(


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