355 - Shurik's F355 garage | Page 4 | FerrariChat

355 Shurik's F355 garage

Discussion in '348/355' started by Shurik355, Aug 10, 2019.

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  1. Shurik355

    Shurik355 Formula Junior

    May 19, 2013
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    USA Tulsa, OK
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    Alex Velet
    #76 Shurik355, Apr 25, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2020
    SO I recently stated having the HVAC problems in my car. It happened before I even did the dash, I remember I started having symptoms a few month before. This HVAC problem is very common in the 355. There are lots of information on it here on the CHAT.

    I found out my #2 hot water pump motor was disconnected.
    Then found some sort of a bypass ground on my 20 amp AC fuse! Not sure what's that for yet.
    Not sure what was the intention for all this but the AC was blowing cold when I bought the car.

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    ANYONE KONWS why is this bypass wire is attached to the AC fuse??? Im certain it's not factory.

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  2. Shurik355

    Shurik355 Formula Junior

    May 19, 2013
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    Alex Velet
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  3. Shurik355

    Shurik355 Formula Junior

    May 19, 2013
    297
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    Alex Velet
    #78 Shurik355, Apr 25, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2020
    So the problem with my HVAC was this.

    The air was blowing out out all the vents, regardless what position it was set on.
    The temperature was not able to control. Was not blowing cold nor hot. Just whatever the outside temperature is.

    Started tackling this problem by going to the HVAC system inside the trunk compartment. The system there has three motors like my picture above shows. I started checking the power to those 3 motors.

    #1 recirc motor has power going to it, but the motor itself if broke.
    #2. hot water pump has no power going to it once connected, but the actual motor works.
    #3 mixing valve motor also has no power going to it, but I tested and the motor is good.

    Now these are all controlled by the HVAC ECU there. I will need to repair my ECU for the #2 and #3 motors. There are a lot of information on these on the CHAT.
    I will post more info on it once i get to it.

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    This is how I checked the motors on power if they are functional by applying 12v, once they are disconnected.

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  4. MAD828

    MAD828 F1 Rookie
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    I have a brand new in packet recirculating motor if you have trouble locating one.
     
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  5. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    Power comes from the AC System fuse with the ignition on. An earth comes from the ECU.

    I assume power will only go to the motor when the valve is required to be moved. However, there should be power on wire 3 for the potentiometer. I also assume the motor is reversible, so +ve power may come in on pin 1 or 5.
     
  6. Shurik355

    Shurik355 Formula Junior

    May 19, 2013
    297
    USA Tulsa, OK
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    Alex Velet
    yes i will check these motors for power #2 and 3 once again. I know the motors are functional but never seems to be operated once i had the car running.
     
  7. Shurik355

    Shurik355 Formula Junior

    May 19, 2013
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    Alex Velet
    how much do you want for it?
     
  8. Qavion

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  9. MAD828

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  10. Ferrarium

    Ferrarium F1 Veteran
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    They always had them, it's the actuator for the flap direction on the other side that is nla #Part: 63307100.
     
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  11. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    All 355 models are the same. The fresh air/recirc actuator (cheaper one) is available and has a rectangular plug. The actuator inside the cabin is the NLA/more expensive one (if you can find one) with a 6 pin round plug. The fresh air actuator doesn't have a potentiometer inside it.
     
  12. Shurik355

    Shurik355 Formula Junior

    May 19, 2013
    297
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    Alex Velet
    That’s the wrong part # for the recirc motor that i need.
    The motor i need is
    63306700
     
  13. Qavion

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    Yes, Ferrarium knows. He said the other actuator was 63307100. Since your air direction system is also not working, you may need one of those, too.

    This is interesting. Maranello Classic parts appears to be offering a cheap substitute for the "NLA" 63307100

    https://www.ferrariparts.co.uk/part/ferrari/63307100?id=44055

    Some modifications may be required.
     
  14. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    When checking power on the 3rd actuator/motor in your photo, you may have to put your voltmeter probes in the backs of the plugs (with the plug connected). The ECU may not output a voltage to the motor until it sees the actuator potentiometer in the circuit.
     
  15. Shurik355

    Shurik355 Formula Junior

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    Alex Velet
    #90 Shurik355, Apr 25, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2020
    That's one way I haven't tried. No one really mentioned on the forums how to properly test these motors. I will try what you said Ian.

    BTW so I worked on the car and found a few more things.

    So the #2 motor has the power from the ECU, I checked it with car running now. I can feel it actually starts working when I unplug #3 motor. With #3 motor plugged in it doesn't kick in,...strange. So only operates when #3 is unplugged.
    But even when #2 is operational. I can feel the water flow through it, but it doesn't get hot at all, even with the motor running for 20 min and set on red (hot).

    Also, so I started looking for the 63307100 motor Ferrarium mentioned and found out it wasn't plugged in. It was unplugged as well :rolleyes: as seen in the picture. So I plugged it back in and still the air direction didn't change. It didn't help. So I took out 63307100 motor and checked for power. I managed to spin the motor with 12v hooked to it, but it only span in one full direction and backwards (black and red) wires. All other connections seems dead ( not sure how this motor suppose to work though) So only red and black wires were operational.

    So I got underneath and moved the inside fan pin for that motor, and I can move between defrost and leg fan position, all the rest I didn't want to force it. Just wanted to see if I can rotate it. So it stuck on leg and defrost position now.

    I wonder is the AC ECU also has a bad chip for this motor? or that motor is bad in anyway? hmmmm...

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  16. Qavion

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    #91 Qavion, Apr 25, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2020
    Interesting. It may simply be part of the system logic and therefore normal (?). It might prove to be a good diagnostic tip for others with problems.

    Seems odd. It's supposed to supplement flow to the system at low engine rpms, but I can't figure out how the normal (unassisted) flow gets to the system unless it flows through the pump when the pump is de-energised. Perhaps the impeller freewheels without electric power? Of course, if the hot water valve (3) is not opening, you won't get water flow, no matter how hard the pump works, so probably very little heat.

    Regarding my comment: "It's supposed to supplement flow to the system at low engine rpms,..", it's not clear from the WSM that the pump cuts in at low engine rpms or whether it's always running. Unfortunately, I can't check my pump unless I pull my car to pieces.

    Note that people have had various problems with their hot water valves (item #3), including, I believe, sheared valve shafts, so the motor may run under the right conditions, but the valve butterfly itself doesn't work.

    This is infuriating. There are so many shonky sellers out there. I literally had 30 problems with my car (now sorted).... fortunately, only two problems with my HVAC.
    Note that there is another message thread on the forum relating to the 63307100 actuator which had been rewired externally for some reason.

    The one revolution is normal. I just tried it on a spare (new) one I have. There must be physical endstops on the actuator mechanism. To get variable heat, I guess you need the valve to modulate between fully closed and fully open. This may be what the potentiometer in the actuator is for. Did you do a check of the potentiometer resistances on the actuator (63307100) itself? My actuator shows a resistance of around 2.27k ohms across pins 2 and 3. The resistance of the other 2 potentiometer pins should vary between a few ohms and 2.27k depending on actuator position. The HVAC ECU provides potentiometer power to both the 6307100 actuator and the hot water valve on the yellow wire. I don't know if the voltage should be there at all times (with the ignition on) or whether it needs the engine to be running.

    Optimistically, you may just have 3 HVAC problems, two of which you have already identified:
    Recirc/fresh air flap actuator boss
    Crunched gears in the recirc/fresh air flap actuator
    Broken hot water (valve)?
     
  17. Qavion

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  18. Shurik355

    Shurik355 Formula Junior

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    #93 Shurik355, Apr 25, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2020
    I don't think I did the potentiometer resistance test on those. I did all kind of tests on the #4 motor with the potentiometer and only black and red wires were operational. I checked for resistance the other connections and they showed nothing. I think the motor could be bad as well. Might as well replace that motor. It's only $50+

    Im pretty cirtain for now that #3 motor ECU chip is fried, and #4 motor ECU chip fried as well.
    #2 and #3 motors are functional and tested to work with 12v power.
    #4 motor im not certain yet if fully functional or not. But might just replace it. It's a cheap part.
     
  19. Qavion

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    If it really is available and compatible, it's a cheap part. Unfortunately, that company is currently closed due to COVID. I paid around U$200 last year when the part was getting pretty rare and I recall a company in Japan trying to sell a pair of actuators (fresh air and directional) for 340,000 yen (over $3000)!!!

    If there is some interdependency between actuators, there may not be any problems with the ECU chips at all. The ECU simply may not be putting out commands because it can't determine valve positions. Also, it was noted by one FChatter that his air direction/timer actuator (#4) did not respond to commands until the car had warmed up. There is also air direction logic based on outside air temperature. In some cases, the outside air temperature sensor on the driver's mirror causes problems.

    Then there was the case of someone finding a sock stuffed in his HVAC plumbing... :D
     
  20. Shurik355

    Shurik355 Formula Junior

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    Yeah I guess im gonna replace #1 and #4 motors first and then go from there. This HVAC system is very tricky, and one problem might cause a chain reaction. Guess I'll find out.
     
  21. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    I'm not 100% sure what Maranello Classic Parts are offering. If you click on the camera symbol in that ad, it shows an actuator boss, not an actuator. I guess we won't know until after coronavirus is over. Perhaps it was too good to be true and the part is, indeed, NLA.
     
  22. Shurik355

    Shurik355 Formula Junior

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  23. The Outcast

    The Outcast Formula 3

    Apr 19, 2011
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    AWESOME THREAD!!!
     
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  24. Ferrarium

    Ferrarium F1 Veteran
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    This is a pretty cool repair for the hvac ecu, is that a common failure I don't recall ever seeing this before, how do you determine the bad chip, or that it was a chip and not a capacitor or cold solder somewhere etc?
     

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