V-12 Engine into 308 Build, over on Grassroots | Page 6 | FerrariChat

V-12 Engine into 308 Build, over on Grassroots

Discussion in '308/328' started by dave80gtsi, Jan 16, 2019.

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  1. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

    Oct 31, 2003
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    well...depending how long the lockdown last......hopefully not THAT long :)
     
  2. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    I've done it that way.....on a 2 cylinder, it would take a long time on a 12. A buddy lent me his piston vise so 30 minutes setting up then 60-90 minutes and all the pistons are done with all the pockets basically exactly alike. Then another hour to re-box the vise and drop it at FedEx for its trip home. Followed I guess by re-balancing the set.....the longest part of the operation is finishing the retaining wall and digging out the patio so I have permission to enter the shop and touch the pistons.

    This is the vise....the 2 thin V jaws grab a pair of wrist pins or a rod going thought the wrist pins bore, the big V grabs the piston. This gets the pistons in and out of the vise in a repeatable way while holding them secure for cutting. I'll set a boring tool up to the Dia I need and it should be just 1 quick cut per pocket....very fast.

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  3. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    It was raining today so I didn't have to work on the patio and instead re-cut the valve pockets....and they needed quite a bit removed. I used the pistons with the most severe marks for setup and allowed 0.050 radial clearance. I found the exhaust pockets were cut at what looked like 20 not 21 degrees and the intakes where cut on 36mm centers not the 38 my heads use and setup for a 32mm not the 34mm I use, and and both need to be moved out over a mm.....but all fixed now and the pistons are ready to rebalance.

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  4. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    I opened Dynomation this morning and installed the latest version which brought me sad news.....I'm down to 805hp. Honestly that number sounds way more right than 920 the older version spit out, but I like the 920 sounds way better .....I guess the good news is I have an 800hp dyno (or more of one) so maybe it doesn't need an modification to work....once the engine runs again that is.
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  5. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    dinoart likes this.
  6. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

    Oct 31, 2003
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    Rain again so I weight matched the pins and pins
    pin are 83.22-83.24g
    pistons are 299.31-299.38g

    We'll call that match. I guess should clay the valve pockets to be certain about the clearance so there are no surprise, it s kind of a pain on this engine, probably 10-20 hour but I really have learned to hate surprises. The heads still need to be finished, there are no exhaust seats at the moment, so finally time to finish the heads,

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  7. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    Just to close the loop on wheels here are the more OEM looking 17s I did did for another member....I really like them....I like having 18in tires and I like that I removed all the metal I thought I could on my wheels but these have me questioning those choices on my wheels.
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    willrace, derekw, 48969 and 1 other person like this.
  8. Cirorsi

    Cirorsi Formula Junior

    Nov 10, 2016
    790
    Louisiana / Lac du Saint Sacrement, NY
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    Steven
    I love them
     
  9. can't surf

    can't surf Rookie

    May 18, 2018
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    Sydney, Australia
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    Peter
    Really nice


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  10. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

    Oct 31, 2003
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    So I've been trapped in the basement, finishing the space was the price of the new shop and honestly keeping the 308. I've been working pretty hard and I finished the primer a couple days ago and last night I was doing a little picking up, putting in some outlets in the walls, cleaned some stuff up in the breaker box....and just looking around it occurred to me that I'm really not sure the remodel has in anyway made the space more attractive....at least to me :)

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  11. theunissenguido

    theunissenguido Formula 3
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    Jan 21, 2004
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    Guido
    Its looking better then before, ....
     
  12. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    really? Sure sure its neater but I'm not sure any space looks better after you REMOVE a ferrari ;)
     
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  13. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

    Oct 31, 2003
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    Trying to get the car back to the top of the project list and had a little time this weekend to cleanup the shop enough to find it and anytime its out is a photo worthy event I guess.
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    today I clean up the 11 cylinders worth of valve that weren't smashed then decide I best measure them to be sure.....one needed a little smack with a mallet to see the straight and narrow, but now they are all within .004"TIR and ready to drop of at the machine shop to be reground perfect. In the meantime I'll try to get the seats finished and the cylinders in the block so when I pick up the valves I can drop off the crank to be ground and block for hone. On the first build the bearings were on the loose side even after coating so now that the crank needs to be ground the plan is to put the bearings in the rods and block and have them measured then set the crank clearance during regrind....so it will be .008-.010 under and perfect. The new cylinder liners are .006 under and the shop says they can hone in place so they will be perfectly round rather than hone outside and be mostly round installed. budget is a bit tight with the construction but hopefully it willbe going back together around Christmas time.

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  14. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    Wade at ***************** in Atlanta offered to help me out with the valves so they are with him (that's also his piston vise a few posts back). The heads are waiting now.

    Did some other VERY important work on the block tonight. Last time I did a really poor job cleaning up the cast surface on the side of the block so I spent a few hours making it a bit nicer, not perfect but acceptable.

    I also need to clean up where the liners sit and get the new liners finished and in the block along with the main bearings so its ready to go the shop to get measured for the crank and honed. Then while that is getting done I'll finish up the heads and this will be ready to make noise again.....in theory :)
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  15. st@ven

    st@ven F1 Rookie

    Aug 4, 2008
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    glad your focus is back on the car!
     
  16. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    Trying....still getting pulled is several directions but its past time to fix the engine....it was supposed to be last fall but somehow I ended up with a never ending house project list that I've been working on non-stop for a frikin year and am far from done.....need a break from that. Car time.
     
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  17. st@ven

    st@ven F1 Rookie

    Aug 4, 2008
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    been there, done that...

    After 4 years of construction i only recenly picked up the work on my 308 Turbo with all the light weight stuff.

    But it is getting close now, again..
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  18. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    I'd forgotten that was you but think about the project and have secured myself a pretty kick butt vacuum pump so I'm ready to follow in your foot steps

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  19. derekw

    derekw Formula 3
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    The Ferrari castings were a surprise to me too. I’ve seen far better castings from the teens and twenties (Bugatti and Hispano Suiza) and even my cheap Austin seven from the thirties has far better castings.
     
  20. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    They were rough, but surprisingly thin and light. Remember I had to clean them all up because mostly because I've welded on most everything and there is no way to make the welded area look anything like a rough sand casting and I've also played mix and match between models/years so even the castings didn't match each other..... so I sanded everything. I must have been tired or sanding by the time I got to the block as I didn't do a very good job on anything that wouldn't REALLY show, but now it all looks pretty good.

    The valves are done and on their way home so I'm going to try to get the block off to the shop this week. They need a few weeks which should give me time to get the heads finished. today though I'm installing a 34ft hedge row with a planting bed behind it, I'm sure it will be very pretty and is the price that must be paid to get funding approved for the car so....dirt and plants it is!
     
  21. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    The plan is to hone the cylinders in the block...so than means getting cylinders in the block. Finally opened the box and they look nice...they couldn't machine the top flange and 0ring seat the way I wanted so I need to do that but not bad. I'll clean up the hole in the block this morning and get on the machining after hat I guess. Reminding everyone these are 86mm bore to get the engine to 5.4liter, and are very similar to the 348/355/360 design just a little longer and little bigger, block machined to match.

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    Brian A likes this.
  22. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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  23. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

    Oct 31, 2003
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    Liners are in the block. Main bearings are in and torqued for measuring. Rod bearing are in and torqued for measuring. Crank is clean. I think I'm ready for a trip to the machine shop.

    I just need to decide what to tell them for rod and main clearance so they know what size to finish the crank...I'll think about that in the morning when I'm less tired I guess. Should be ready to pick up early next month.....could be driving by Christmas if I don't find any other major issues.
     
  24. derekw

    derekw Formula 3
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    I can’t remember if you covered it but are your big ends still round? Mine were all a bit out (and even more with the ARP bolts) so had then ground.
     
  25. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

    Oct 31, 2003
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    My QV rods were out when I rebuilt that enigne years ago but the 360 rods I'm using now checked near perfect last build, We'll see what they say this time.

    Good that I waited until morning to think about bearing clearances because I'm more than confused at the moment. Looking at the 400, 308 and QV manuals the nominal main clearance is .0018 and nominal rod is .00266.....those numbers SEEM backwards. The 328 section is asking for tighter on the mains.. the bearing people say 3/4-1 per inch is typical making those numbers exactly backwards.

    Those are the nominal numbers the range is
    Rod .00181-.00350
    Main .00114-.00252

    There is overlap and I could just use the normal numbers which would put the rods right at the bottom of the factory spec....and my rods are 360 so not sure what the factory spec is for them, I found a 355 manual but it doesn't specifically give a clearance spec that I can find....the numbers on the journal, rod, bearing are all very close to 308 ...rod bore is exact, bearing a touch thinner, crank a touch larger so it adds to about the same numbers. Mains are the tighter 328 spec of .00126

    I'm ASSUMING they have found the block is rigid so mains can be run tight but rods flex and need the clearance....not sure. Its raining today...I'll go to the shop tomorrow so I have another day to think
     

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