488 Pistas selling for less than MSRP...

Pista selling for less than MSRP seems to be a fact in both Europe and the US (looking at asked prices, which are about MSRP, and assuming actual prices are always equal to or lower than asked prices).
I do not know the real reason though - it could be either that the Pista was too expensive in the first place (which I was inclined to believe from the start, but that was an opinion strongly rejected at the time), or the current crisis has an impact on the car valuation.
But I cannot see how one could believe that the Pista was not overpriced AND there is no impact of the current crisis - to explain the current pricing situation, at least one of the two factors should be at play.

 

Certainly the first for sure coupled with the speculative interest. The second one is just starting but once it makes it way through will just exacerbate the situation over time. How low they go is anybody's guess but eventually advertised retail below MSRP is a given.

 

Are you that dense? Is it not obvious that we're talking about relatively modern and today's exotics? Did you ever consider that sales totals != exotic prices? Who the **** cares about how many cars a companies sold? People care about what price they have to pay, and the cast majority of exotic prices got crushed in the last recession and the market was flooded.

Did you shop for exotics in 2008/2009? Were you offered 2007 LP640s for $100K under MSRP in Summer 2008 that were barely used ? Did you make any offers on cars that were listed $100K under sticker that were only a year old? Did you considering buying a CGT when they were $300K?

And WTF does that graph even mean? It certainly doesn't show prices in any meaningful way.

 

I would never have objected to that opinion, and I haven't heard anyone contest the car was overpriced or, suggest it was a bargain. Who was strongly objecting it? Maybe they were saying it wasn't overpriced in the context of comparing it to the other 488 variants and that I would go along with. So far the resale values on 488 in particular indict the fact that it was extremely overpriced.

I would also agree the current crisis is the most obvious answer behind any price softening and lack of sales for Pista as a model. For anyone to make it out as being some other reason is just sour grapes kicking in.

 

Can you share the price and sales data for Sweden? I'd be interested to see what the 3 exotics in Sweden sold for in March and April...

 

While there is no disagreement that the driving dynamics of the Pista and the F8 differ markedly, they are essentially the same car. They are differentiated by ECU calibration, transmission mapping and various other electronic aids settings. Ultimately, the financial cost of these distinctions between the 2 cars is minimal. Very difficult to justify a $75k - $100k dearer price for the Pista.

 

The 16M over the 430 spider had similar differences and the price gap has always been huge. Same for the Scud over a std 430, etc. This is not the reason for the number of Pista's for sale. I believe there were many speculators and/or buyers who jumped on the idea of getting a special car with the hopes of making a buck and their cars hit the market around the same time. Early on there were huge markups but that went away quickly. The other ~800 owners (in the US) probably have no intention of selling and dont need to. Maybe they come down a bit more but they will flatten and perhaps go up down the road but to most it doesn't matter.

The value of the Pista seems to be most important to people who dont have one and would never have one unless they hit 360 prices or people who sold quickly and want to justify their decision to themselves.

The gap between the F8 and the Pista will grow over time but for people who want the more special car will make the stretch.

 

I would agree the 75K is an overcharge given the amount of car parts you're buying is much the same. However, once you drive the two it becomes clearer that Ferrari is hinging the extra 75k on the Pista as delivering an overall superior driving experience and, inevitable superior resale value over F8 which essentially will more than make up for the 75k additional anyway. So in this context the Pista becomes the cheaper car as it not only is the more compelling/engaging but also stands to deliver better on resale. Note i'm not drawing any comparisons between straight line or track times of both as I feel these measures really aren't that relevant for most buyers anyway as they are not buying these cars to race competitively on a circuit. There are better cars for that as most would be aware.

 

Your comparison of the F430 -Scud and F430 spider - 16m and the Pista to the F8 are not analogous. In the former situation the Scud and the 16M were special upgrades to the 430. The F8 is actually the latest model not the earlier one. The more appropriate comparison would be the 488 to the Pista. The F8 is an anomaly to the historic evolution of model upgrades. The F8 should have been the evolution of the 488 and the Pista should have followed the F8 as the more track focused car.

 

That's true but the Pista will remain as the special version of the series.

 

Mclaren adhered to the consistent evolution of model introduction in going from the 650s to the 675LT, the 570S to the 600LT and currently the 720S to the 765LT. Unlike Ferrari with the F8, it is highly unlikely, meaning no chance, that Mclaren will introduce an upgrade to the 720S that is less compelling to drive than the 765LT.

 

I concur doctor I absolutely love that car!

 

That's arguable. How many miles did you drive yours before selling? Just wondering how well you actually got to know the car.

 

I did the matched pair Tdf/Speciale and couldn't be happier. Both "forever keepers."

 

AGREED on use of the word "raw" in context of Tdf. Per my taste, this adds to the excitement the car offers.

 

Thanks! yeah I think the matched pair would be really awesome. What color are they? I remember seeing a blue TDF match, that was beautiful!

 

Grigio Ferro

 

not many, less than 100. of course the tdf isnt an f12, but it is!

 

Did you? How about in 2010? 11? Certainly in 12 you bought a car. Maybe in 13? How about 14? In 15 I’m sure you bought many cars. Or was it in 16 when you started your prolific purchase history?

For sure by the time 2017 rolled around you must have amassed quite a collection. Or did that happen in 18 cause I’m pretty sure in 2019 you didn’t buy anything.

Oh wait, my bad, I got confused. Those were the years you renewed your subscription to car and driver. Sorry about that. Carey on.

 

Thank you Mr. Patel, you are very kind.

Regards to your observations, I've heard the same thing, my friend. Now, of course, I would never advise anyone to purchase a car for investment purposes, a theory on the last rise was the massive global central bank stimulus (deja vu anyone?) made the affluent consider diversification into other assets, specifically cars.
***
Skateboards, heck sneakers, whatever your pleasure - all are welcome here. As I've said many times, ownership is never a litmus test. You hit on another good observation; though, one begins to ponder @noone1 motivation, right? A combative curmudgeon on a topic that supposedly is their bane yet spends a considerable amount of time on.

Jilted lover ex stalker comes to mind at worse, troll sadly at best?

But I immaturely admit, a personal source of great entertainment, albeit at his expense.

 

Why are you getting worked up? It's just the internet buddy. (your words not mine)

Son, I posted HAGI, that is prices. Again, just because you don't understand something, doesn't mean it's a non-sequitur to the discussion. Why you are talking about a LP640, this is Ferrarichat, not Lamborghinichat, nor is this thread talking about Hurcan Performante. I did shop for exotics back then - nobody offered me a discount on a brand new 458, you were offered a new 458 for under MSRP in 08? if you did, can you tell me what dealership?

I've answered all your questions, will you have the decency to answer mine?


When the most interesting man in the world says "Stay thirsty my friends" I think you didn't quite understand what he meant. It doesn't mean you go to the bar and tell everybody that do have drinks all the bad things about their drinks just because you don't have one.

It's very unbecoming and a sad sight to witness, let me tell you.

 

why?

 

Dont hold your breath.

 

Just so you know, I was telling the General Manager of Silicon Ferrari Valley about @noone1 last statement about the proper way to drive a DCT paddle is in automatic mode.

We all had a really good laugh.

Then in Italian somebody said '"L'invidia non muore mai" I asked him, "what did you say?"

He said:

"Envy takes no holiday."

Case in point:

Here @noone1 posts all the 'bad' things about the F8 in a thread where somebody just bought one.

I had to remind him the decent thing to do is to congratulate the new owner, not criticize his purchase.

 

Automatic mode. lol. I still chuckle on that one. BTW- he has me on ignore which is fine but after the last time I challenged him on the whole driving in auto mode bs, he actually went on Mclaren Life and started a thread to ask the members there to back him up on the whole auto vs paddle thing. Was so funny that he doesnt have personal experience in what he is promoting but has to rely on the experience of others.