The best driver of all time ... | Page 2 | FerrariChat

The best driver of all time ...

Discussion in 'F1' started by william, Mar 17, 2020.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. spicedriver

    spicedriver F1 Rookie

    Feb 1, 2011
    3,859
    From the book - "Gilles Villeneuve - The Life of a Legend"

    "When we saw him going out in the rain, we said, 'This we've got to see'," renowned F1 journalist Dennis Jenkinson recalled. "Some members of the press, who think they know it all, don't bother going out when it rains. But I was on the corner watching him and all the hardball members of the press were with me. We had to see this. It was something special. Oh, he was fantastic! He was unbelievable!"

    Nigel Roebuck was another 'hardballer' who braved the elements and saw the performance first hand.



    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Gilles Villeneuve won huge respect from all those who saw him compete © Sutton Images
    Enlarge



    "Gilles was the one bloke who made you go and look for a corner in a practice session, because you knew that where everybody else would go through it as if on rails, Gilles would be worth watching. That day in the rain at Watkins Glen was almost beyond belief. It truly was.

    "You would think he had 300 horsepower more than anybody else. It just didn't seem possible. The speed he was travelling at didn't bear any relation to anybody else. He was 11 seconds faster. Jody was next fastest and couldn't believe it, saying he had scared himself rigid! I remember [Jacques] Laffite in the pits just giggling when Gilles went past and saying, 'Why do we bother? He's different from the rest of us. On a separate level'."
     
    Nembo1777 and 375+ like this.
  2. Gatorrari

    Gatorrari F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 27, 2004
    15,924
    Georgia
    Full Name:
    Jim Pernikoff
    You have to distinguish between "the best F1 driver of all time" (1950-onward) versus "the best GP driver of all time" (1906-onward). Based on what I've read, I'd pick Tazio Nuvolari over any of the post-1950 drivers, even Fangio, Clark, Prost or Senna. But of course, that's just my opinion, based on written material. Without having seen all the contenders race, it's really hard to compare.
     
    wax, william and Jack-the-lad like this.
  3. Borrow’d Mine

    Borrow’d Mine Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 28, 2019
    808
    Florida
    I rank them relative to danger and equipment. The early champions were fearless daredevils (Fangio); the 60s & 70s champions crazy in those fuel bombs (Stewart, Andretti, Lauda); the 80s and 90s outright speed, equipment management, overcoming crash impact (Prost, Senna); modern day... can they get it done with a car that is 90% of the front runners (Alonso).
     
    william and Jack-the-lad like this.
  4. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 3, 2006
    25,447
    By a quick rule of thumbs, IMO

    Best in the 50s: Fangio
    Best in the 60s: Clark and Stewart
    Best in the 70s: Lauda
    Best in the 80s: Piquet
    Best in the 90s: Prost
    Best in the 2000: Schumacher
    Best in the 2010: Hamilton
     
    ktu and jgonzalesm6 like this.
  5. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    9,252
    I can buy into that methodology.
    5 of my race driver idols are in that list.
     
    Jakuzzi likes this.
  6. Flavio_C

    Flavio_C Formula 3
    BANNED

    Sep 7, 2012
    2,445
    Insubria
     
    Boomhauer and jgonzalesm6 like this.
  7. Flavio_C

    Flavio_C Formula 3
    BANNED

    Sep 7, 2012
    2,445
    Insubria
    Image Unavailable, Please Login

    1983 Brazilian Grand Prix:

    Piquet starts in fourth, overtakes team mate Patrese on the first lap, then Prost, and then Rosberg, to lead the race for 57 laps out of 63.
     
    Boomhauer likes this.
  8. Albert-LP

    Albert-LP F1 Veteran
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Sep 1, 2010
    7,779
    around Modena, Italy
    Full Name:
    Alberto Mantovani
    even if he never raced in F1, in my opinion the best was Scuderia Ferrari top driver Tazio Nuvolari.

    I never met him (he died nine years years before my Birth...), but my uncle was a friend of him and he alwayst told me "Nuvolari was an hero and the best ever"

    ciao

    http://www.tazionuvolari.it/en/

    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
    greg328 and wax like this.
  9. spirot

    spirot F1 World Champ

    Dec 12, 2005
    14,501
    Atlanta
    Full Name:
    Tom Spiro

    I saw this report, and hearing the methodology behind it - its hard not to refute it. Fangio is in deed the Greatest of All Time. I think the surprise for me was Alonso. I don't rate him at all as good, but his record is deceiving.

    As for Drivers I've seen race here is my top 10:

    1. Jackie Stewart
    2. Niki Lauda
    3. Alain Prost
    4. Ayrton Senna
    5. Michael Schumacher
    6. Gilles Villenueve
    7.Mario Andretti
    8. Emmerson Fittipaldi
    9. Nelson Piquet
    10. Ronnie Peterson

    I'm going from my own experience - and who was always the best ... Jackie Stewart's record held from 1973 to 1987 - 14 years as the most winning driver ever... then as more races were added the record started to tumble... Senna and Schumacher were clearly on a level above everyone in terms of pure speed... but they were "dirty" drivers - caused accidents, and were not always as safe as they needed to be... Stewart was clean - precise - just like Prost - and Lauda. To me the best drivers were not always the absolute fastest - but the ones that could always be counted on being there in the end.... you never counted out Stewart, Lauda and Prost.

    Villeneuve is more emotional than anything ... he was spectacular and probably should have been champion in 82 - but in the end he was too wild.

    Andretti should be the best driver period because he's proved his skill across so many different styles of driving... Nascar, sports cars, F-1 - Indy, dirt track, you name it - he's raced it and won.

    Fittipaldi is my example of a great driver who just made horrible career choices. leaving McLaren for his own team... stupid. but his comeback in Indy was fantastic.
    Piquet - he was always fast - and the last of the care free playboy drivers... always a good time

    Ronnie Peterson - another God gifted talent -who made terrible career choices... could have been world champion had he made the right team selections... sadly did not .

    ultimately - Jackie Stewart is the best I've seen. winning by 7min at Nurburgring? amazing that it was in the rain and fog - outstanding. He was always precise, patient, and analytical, top preparation and made his name in and out of the racing car. He was always fast ... even after he retired. in the 80's he drove a number of Turbo cars - and was less than a second off the current drivers ... but more than anything else Jackie Stewart = Formula One. everyone knows him, and he has not set a foot wrong in over 60 years of being in the public eye. Amazing man.
     
    wax, william, Flavio_C and 1 other person like this.
  10. Flavio_C

    Flavio_C Formula 3
    BANNED

    Sep 7, 2012
    2,445
    Insubria
    Andretti should be into the top 5, if not top 3. The guy killed it on every category he disputed, whether early or later in his career.

    Fittipaldi should also be remembered. Imagine being two times world champion and risking everything to develop his own car and team. Sorry but I can't agree with you that it was stupid, it was a very brave decision that unfortunately didn't work out. I admire him for it.
     
    Jack-the-lad and Boomhauer like this.
  11. spirot

    spirot F1 World Champ

    Dec 12, 2005
    14,501
    Atlanta
    Full Name:
    Tom Spiro
    You are right - when I say stupid - perhaps foolish. I could see from 75 - 77 trying your own team, but hanging on till 82-83... not smart. He really ruined his reputation while he could have really done a lot at McLaren, Lotus, Brabham, or even Ferrari... let alone teams like Tyrrell or even Ligier. I think Fittipaldi could have added at least one if not two more championships by being in the right car. I admire his loyalty to Brazil, but he needed to think more about being practical. the good news is when he was at Penske - he showed he had what it took... competing against some of the best... and winning Indy 2 x!
     
    Terra, Flavio_C and william like this.
  12. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 3, 2006
    25,447
    I concur with most of what you said.
    I have the same opinion about Senna and Schumacher.
     
  13. '88. 'T'was 1.427 sec., but, alas, he crashed out whilst leading on lap 66 of 78. Prost went on to win.
    And, during the race, Prost's fastest lap was only .393 slower. (btw, your time wouldn't stand if you Q'd in someone else's car. I know what you meant, but no two cars are ever "exactly" the same. Perhaps Prost's setup was not right 'til race setup)
    Additionally, in '89, again Prost was out-poled by his teammate by 1.148 and finished second to Senna. However, his fastest lap of the race was 0.516 faster than Ayrton's........
    'Just sayin'..........neither was a favourite of mine......

    I won't even touch on my one and only favourite guy's abilities; nor my one and only team (thank you Colin)......... :)
     
  14. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 3, 2006
    25,447
    No surprise for me there. Prost and Senna had different approach to racing, and that included practice and qualifications.

    Senna always wanted to drive every session to the max, and aiming for pole position was part of that strategy.
    Prost had a tendency to concentrate in preparing his car for the race, even if that meant sacrifying a position on the grid.
     
  15. spicedriver

    spicedriver F1 Rookie

    Feb 1, 2011
    3,859
    Gillles Villeneuve Remarkable Overtakes

    Love the outside passes !


     
  16. kryten2001

    kryten2001 Formula 3

    Biggest "heart", for me, was Mansell.
    Biggest talent, Senna.

    I was a huge Mansell fan. Loved his racing style.
     
  17. furoni

    furoni F1 World Champ

    Jun 6, 2011
    13,609
    Vila Verde
    Full Name:
    Pedro Braga Soares
    Gilles was streets ahead of everyone else....and they all admited it, something that i never saw again. He didn't had the mindset to control himself and play it safe to gain points for the championship, he didn't care about it, he simply wanted to win races, but in terms of pure speed and raw talent he was by fa rthe best that ever was.
     
  18. furoni

    furoni F1 World Champ

    Jun 6, 2011
    13,609
    Vila Verde
    Full Name:
    Pedro Braga Soares
    This, no other driver was revered by his peers as gilles was, you can find many saying, Senna was teh best, Michael was the best, Clarck was the best, but they don't talk about them like they did about Gilles, and you can fins quotes about him by almost every driver of his time, they all knew he was on another league, and what's ost important, Gilles drove against what was probably the best f.1 grid of all times.
    Prost, Mansell, Lauda, Rosberg, Arnoux, Pironi, Jones, Sheckter, Lafitte, Reutman, Piquet, Watson, De Angelis, they are all top or very good drivers, all race winners, all top dogs on their day, the fact that they all saw Gilles as something special, on another level tells me all i need to know about his talent.
     
    375+ likes this.
  19. spicedriver

    spicedriver F1 Rookie

    Feb 1, 2011
    3,859
    #45 spicedriver, Apr 23, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2020
    A tad bit older than in recent years. More experienced, more professional. Good clean racing !
     
  20. ago car nut

    ago car nut F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Aug 29, 2008
    5,246
    Madison Ohio
    Full Name:
    David A.
    Poor Gilles had no fear, unfortunately it cost him! Today's cars maybe not so!
     
  21. #47 lorenzobandini, Apr 23, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2020
    (The best grid of all times? Laffite, Arnoux, Pironi, Reuteman, Watson, de Angelis? Really??? A prescription change is req'd for your red coloured glasses.)
    Maybe it does for you. but, the best at his time held him to no championships, and only 6 wins (and more).
    That tells me all I need to know about his being able to perform...a requirement for being "the best"....... ;)

    Interesting; Everybody said the same about Jim during his career. 'Difference being, he held the most wins (25) record 'til Jackie ( I know, a slouch, right?) broke it by only two (with 28 more races under his belt); and two WCs (again, and more), in only 5 more career races. That says a whole lot more to me about one's being the best. One needs to deliver to be the best. Not just put on a show. :)

    Jim
    2 championships
    72 Grands Prix

    25 wins (34.72 %)
    33 pole positions (45.83 %)
    28 fastest laps (38.89 %)
    32 podiums (44.44 %)
    3.81 pts / GP
    30.44 pts / season


    GILLES
    0 championships
    67 Grands Prix
    6 wins (8.96 %)
    2 pole positions (2.99 %)
    8 fastest laps (11.94 %)
    13 podiums (19.40 %)

    1.60 pts / GP
    17.83 pts / season
     
    william likes this.
  22. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 3, 2006
    25,447
    You said it brillantly. You cannot judge a racing driver by his speed only: he has to deliver.

    Clark and Villeneuve are like chalk and chees in this respect.
    Clark was focused on result and did what it took to get it.
    That meant looking after his car, pacing himself and doing his best in any circumstances.
    Villeneuve mostly indulged in instant gratification without looking ahead.
    He drove with great abandon to enjoy himself, often trashing his car to death doing so.
     
  23. spicedriver

    spicedriver F1 Rookie

    Feb 1, 2011
    3,859
    A lot of people say that, but the accident that killed him was not his fault. You're supposed to keep your line when being passed, this is basics. A lot of people never raced, so they don't understand this.
     
    375+ likes this.
  24. spicedriver

    spicedriver F1 Rookie

    Feb 1, 2011
    3,859
    His career was cut short by the mistake of another driver. When was any other driver 11 seconds/lap faster than the rest of the field, on the same track, under the same conditions ? Jody said he didn't understand how that was even possible. You obviously don't get it.
     
    375+ likes this.

Share This Page