Late 246 Seat Belt Buckle Replacement | FerrariChat

Late 246 Seat Belt Buckle Replacement

Discussion in '206/246' started by DinoDriver, Feb 15, 2010.

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  1. DinoDriver

    DinoDriver Formula Junior

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    #1 DinoDriver, Feb 15, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Here's another item I had to fix in prep for the Cavallino Classic Concours. Many years ago the plastic surround had broken on the passenger's side female seat belt buckle - - see pix #1 below. I believe all of the late U.S. 246s (1974 production lot) had lap belts only, no shoulder harness, unfortunately. Typically, the set looked like mine in Pix #2. I had substituted a 4 point Simpson system in the early 90s because I was doing a lot of FCA track events. Now the Dino is, primarily, a show car so I had to scrap the Simpson system, which had served me so well, and fix or replace the original latch.

    Because this is a safety item that is no longer available exactly like the original, the official concours guidelines allow for replacements similar to the original item. So, how should that be interpreted - - about the same size, shape, color, pattern/texture, etc. Same philosophy as my previous post on the jack bumper replacement.

    I found a company that supplies parts and pieces for most of the shops in the U.S. who fix seat belts-- "Andover Companies" in Columbia, MD. Here's their website page for the item I needed: http://www.andoauto.com/hardware.htm , scroll down to "Buckles-push button release" and it's the male-female set on the far left (#8388, $14 per male-female set + postage) - - an irregular rectanglar shape, close to original size, that all important "Starburst" pattern on the push-button as on the original and, unfortunately, brushed chrome! I took care of the chrome by using one of my favorite 3M products -- rubberized "Underseal Undercoating" 3M P/N 08882. I sprayed it on the female parts (2), took the original seat belt sets to a local automotive upholstery shop and had them sew on the new pieces. Pix #3 shows a close-up of the old vs new female latch. Not a bad match, works well and was accepted by the concours judges.

    Hope this helps those with broken seat belts. Andover has many different style belt systems for current and vintage cars. Good luck,

    Bill
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  2. UroTrash

    UroTrash Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #2 UroTrash, Feb 15, 2010


    Nice work Bill!

    Did someone tell me that judges will not count off for upgraded safety equip like better belts and fire suppression systems?
     
  3. dm_n_stuff

    dm_n_stuff Four Time F1 World Champ
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    #3 dm_n_stuff, Feb 16, 2010
    That is correct.

    No deduction for safety equipment. however, if you stick a big old fire suppression system on your Dino, I'll have to come down there and revoke your Dino ownership permit.

    Since seat belts are required in the car, and originals can't be found, replacing the working bits with something newer should not result in a points deduction.

    Dave M.
     
  4. DinoDriver

    DinoDriver Formula Junior

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    #4 DinoDriver, Feb 16, 2010
    Uro
    Dave is correct and here's how I stated it in Post#1:

    "Because this is a safety item that is no longer available exactly like the original, the official concours guidelines allow for replacements similar to the original item. So, how should that be interpreted - - about the same size, shape, color, pattern/texture, etc. Same philosophy as my previous post on the jack bumper replacement."

    I don't believe I've ever had points deducted for the fire extinguisher that's mounted on the floor to the left of my driver's seat or for the 4-point Simpson belt system for me and my instructor/passenger, As a judge, I've never subtracted for such items unless they are poorly installed or in bad condition. Here's the exact words from the official Concours Guidelines:

    "Safety-related items that are not original, but which were added for safety purposes, such as seat belts, fire extinguisher, side view mirror, or alarm system, will be acceptable provided the installation of such items is neat, unobtrusive, and does not detract from the original appearance of the automobile. This also applies toaudio-visual and telecommunications equipment."

    Complete official guidelines and scoring sheets are available on our FCA-MAR website: http://www.fca-mar.com/ClubConcours.asp

    Enjoy!

    Bill
     
  5. UroTrash

    UroTrash Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #5 UroTrash, Feb 16, 2010
    ^^^ interesting, thanks Bill.
     
  6. HMB-Dino

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    #6 HMB-Dino, Aug 10, 2010
    A Dino I'm buying had the original seat belts replaced with 5pt belts anchored to the bulkhead. I noticed that there's a threaded hole on the painted shelf(?) directly behind each seat. Is that a mount pt for a 3pt belt system? It's a 1971-1972 Euro 246gt...produced March 71, but in Registry as a 1972.

    Any pointers on where to find replacements and/or installation guide?
     
  7. tx246

    tx246 F1 Veteran
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    #7 tx246, Aug 10, 2010
    Finding original belts is all but a lost cause. The best is to get some nice belts that seem to look the part. Yes, that hole is for the shoulder strap
     
  8. HMB-Dino

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    #8 HMB-Dino, Aug 10, 2010
    I suspected that decent replacements would be the req'd direction to take. Any suggestions on where to look?

    My PPI should be completed tomorrow, so I'm already planning a few changes to return the not-quite-mine-yet Dino 246GT to 'correctness'.
     
  9. myfazzman1

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    #9 myfazzman1, Aug 10, 2010
    Shawn

    see my other posts on Klippan seat belts for Ferrari's.

    I recently suggested to another 246 owner to buy the Klippan belts from the Delorean parts dealer in Texas from memory?

    He did and PM'd me to say they were a perfect fit. The Euro 246's had the same belts as the Delorean believe it or not. I was unsure if the Delorean stalks were the right length for the Dino but it turns out they are perfect!

    If you require further help/info. PM or Email me.

    Cheers,

    Pete
     
  10. racerboy9

    racerboy9 F1 Rookie
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    #10 racerboy9, Aug 10, 2010
    I think the Fiat 124's had the same belts but the logo in the center said Fiat instead of the star burst. The lengths are different. On one NOS Fiat belt I have, the recoil side is exactly the same as my '74 GTS but is about 1" longer. Some Lancia belts were the same as well.
     
  11. jselevan

    jselevan Formula 3

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    #11 jselevan, Aug 10, 2010
    I believe that this is incorrect. All of my Dinos 02832, 02900, 03003 have lap belts and "snap-in" shoulder belt. The shoulder belt was a separate piece that would slide into the lap belt at the buckle. It could be removed while still wearing the lap belt. The bolt hole behind the driver and passenger between the rear window and quarter window (on coupes) is the mounting point for the shoulder harness.

    Jim S.
     
  12. racerboy9

    racerboy9 F1 Rookie
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    #12 racerboy9, Aug 10, 2010
    My '74 GTS came with only the lap belt but the threaded hole for the shoulder harness was under the factory vinyl by the back window.
     
  13. HMB-Dino

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    #13 HMB-Dino, Aug 11, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    The attached picture shows the unused threaded hole I was referring to (this one behind the driver's seat), but it's in the painted area behind the seat, not under any vinyl. The (2) non-factory items in the picture are a kill switch (left) and the fire suppression button (right).
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  14. 4CamGT

    4CamGT F1 Rookie

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    #14 4CamGT, Aug 11, 2010

    Yes, they were a perfect fit! Later Euro Dinos through 308's, Mondials got the 3pt. Klippan retractable belts. These are exact replacements. Order only the passenger side(they are the same except the pass side doesn't have the seatbelt warning wires). They bolt right in to the original pre theaded holes with absolutely no mods. They even come with the bolts. They only say "Klippan" on the labels. They cost about $120 for one seat.

    Freeman

    On Jim's comment on the lap belt. I have seen several later Dinos with just the lap belt and no hole for the shoulder belt.
     
  15. 2GT

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    #15 2GT, Aug 11, 2010
    Both my Dinos have the separate shoulder harnesses, and I've found that the shoulder harness very easily comes unbuckled while driving, so I never use the harnesses. At least I've never been hassled by police who thought that I wasn't wearing a seat belt! Fred
     
  16. tx246

    tx246 F1 Veteran
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    #16 tx246, Aug 11, 2010
    The Delorean seatbelts are the same as the early Euro cars. They have a plastic stalk with the female receiver on the end, vs the US spec cars that have fabric connectors to the female receiver.
     
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  17. HMB-Dino

    HMB-Dino Formula 3
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    #17 HMB-Dino, Aug 11, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Ok, so w/o a Dino in front of me to compare, the drawings for the DeLorean seat belt assy seems a lot different than that shown in a Ferrari Dino drawing...in particular, the location for the retractible `hub' (?). So can someone upload a real life picture of a Dino 3pt seat belt assy (installed) for comparison purposes? Does it match the Dino drawing attached?
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  18. tx246

    tx246 F1 Veteran
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    #18 tx246, Aug 11, 2010
    The dino interior parts shows the fabric connector. It is clear that a plastic stalk connector is original on uk/euro cars. I am just not familar enough with what goes to what
     
  19. swift53

    swift53 F1 Veteran
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    #19 swift53, Aug 11, 2010
    My "L" does not have a stalk on the female end. It is all cloth and no reels.
    Regards, Alberto
     
  20. HMB-Dino

    HMB-Dino Formula 3
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    #20 HMB-Dino, Aug 11, 2010
    Just in case it matters (Euro vs US, L vs M vs E series, etc), the Dino I'm pursuing is an "M" series (Euro, S/N 01712).
     
  21. GermanDino

    GermanDino F1 Rookie

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    #21 GermanDino, Aug 12, 2010
    For the M-serie the original belts are:
    Klippan Mod. 517 R P with Geypa Lyfe-Lok II
     
  22. HMB-Dino

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    #22 HMB-Dino, Aug 12, 2010
    Haven't been able to find those online...do you have a source or alternative?
     
  23. HMB-Dino

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    #23 HMB-Dino, Aug 12, 2010
    I found this reference to the Klippan seat belts, all non-interia (on the Daytona registry), but none reference "Geypa".

    Care to pick what is the (more) correct one? They're about half way down the linked page.


    http://www.daytonaregistry.com/originality/index.html
     
  24. synchro

    synchro F1 Veteran

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    #24 synchro, Apr 19, 2020

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