What is this in my engine bay | FerrariChat

What is this in my engine bay

Discussion in '308/328' started by Tonksy1, Apr 17, 2020.

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  1. Tonksy1

    Tonksy1 Karting

    Jun 21, 2016
    91
    New Zealand
    Hi Ferrari chatters. I'm doing a bit of a tidy up in my 83 308 qv engine bay and have always wondered what this resistor and sensor? are for. They look to be on a home made bracket. The wiring seems to be factory.The bracket is mounted on the rear wall beside the water reservoir. Any help identifying these two items would be much appreciated.
    Thanks.
    Dean
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  2. miketuason

    miketuason F1 World Champ
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    Feb 24, 2006
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    Cerritos, CA.
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    Mike
    Some kind of sensor, where is it located in the engine bay?
     
  3. mike996

    mike996 F1 Veteran

    Jun 14, 2008
    6,691
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    Mike 996
    Certainly isn't original. Can't imagine why it's there. The script on the side of the 'sensor' is readable. If you can determine all the numbers/letters you can do a search and probably find out what it is and then make a reasonable guess as to why a previous owner installed it.
     
  4. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jan 11, 2001
    25,145
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
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    Steve Magnusson
    What version 1983 308QV? Euro? US? Euro converted in some way to be NZ legal? Something else?

    What are the insulation colors on the two wires? Off hand, it looks like a thermoswitch where the resistor heats up the plate (i.e., the thermoswitch is in one state cold, then, after starting, the resistor heats up the plate and the thermoswitch changes state for warm running when temperature X is reached). Many US models have something similar where the thermoswitch is mounted to the coolant expansion tank.
     
  5. flash32

    flash32 F1 Veteran

    Aug 22, 2008
    5,680
    Central NJ
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    Dominick
    Looks like a power resistor

    Sent from my moto g(7) using Tapatalk
     
  6. Tonksy1

    Tonksy1 Karting

    Jun 21, 2016
    91
    New Zealand
    It's wiring comes from the left hand side behind the water coolant tank and bracket is mounted next to the coolant tank. Will attach some more pics.
    The resister wires are light blue x2 and the sencor wires are yellow and brown.
    I'm still thinking these are fed from original wiring loom.
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  7. Tonksy1

    Tonksy1 Karting

    Jun 21, 2016
    91
    New Zealand
    Thanks Mike. I can read the numbers as
    1 271 668 BMW
    I didn't have much luck with this number on google, but did find some very close numbers, unfortunatly they didnt give me much info on where and what these sencors are used for.
     
  8. Tonksy1

    Tonksy1 Karting

    Jun 21, 2016
    91
    New Zealand
    Thanks Steve. It's a Euro spec that did go to Florida in the US I believe when it was new. It still retained all its Euro spec features when I imported it to NZ. The AAV is still all attached to the bottom of the coolant tank if that's where you were heading. The bracket with the resister and sensor on it is sharing to the outer coolant tank fixing/tab. But I wouldn't think you would get a good heat exchange through that.
    Sensor 1 x yellow, 1 x brown wire
    Resister 2 x light blue wires
     
  9. waymar

    waymar Formula 3

    Sep 2, 2008
    1,324
    Northeast, PA - USA
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    Wayne Martin
    My guess.. the powered vacuum solenoids were removed and this simple resistor allows the warmup light to still function when the expansion tank hits 140deg. I removed my 3 solenoids and added a 40 ohm power resistor out of sight...... warmup dash light still works. Just saying....
     
  10. ClydeM

    ClydeM F1 World Champ
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    Nov 4, 2003
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    On my '83, there's the thermasistor(?) into the coolant tank. They are NLA. it's probable somebody rigged something to bypass it. The normal way is just connect the two wires together.
     
  11. Vonbarron

    Vonbarron Formula 3
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    Aug 26, 2014
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    My 83 euro has same resistor just sitting there
     
  12. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jan 11, 2001
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    Those insulation colors don't seem to indicate anything obvious. Can you post some pictures of the engine to see what's been changed, or added, from a stock euro version 308QV?
     
  13. ferrariowner

    ferrariowner Formula 3

    Feb 21, 2014
    1,109
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    Ron
    The gold finned device is a hi-wattage resistor. The other device looks like a thermo switch.Lot's of odd devices add to some Euro cars when brought to the US for federalization.
     
  14. Tonksy1

    Tonksy1 Karting

    Jun 21, 2016
    91
    New Zealand
    I have a warm up light? I never knew that. I'm guessing if I don't have a warm up light showing on my dash then these things aren't working( if that's what they are for). Do all 308 have a warm up light?
    Where is it positioned on the dash?
    Cheers for the feed back people.
     
  15. Tonksy1

    Tonksy1 Karting

    Jun 21, 2016
    91
    New Zealand
    Hi Steve, here is a pic of the engine, not sure if I've captured everything, let me know if I can help with any other pics.
    Cheers
     
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  16. Tonksy1

    Tonksy1 Karting

    Jun 21, 2016
    91
    New Zealand
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  17. Tonksy1

    Tonksy1 Karting

    Jun 21, 2016
    91
    New Zealand
    Ok, so I've just managed to follow these wires for both sensor and resistor directly to the K jetronic fuel control unit..see pic.
    Also Followed the AAV cables to see if this had been messed with some how, but the wires still seem intact and run to the digiplex unit.
    I'm sure we now have enough info to solve this case.
    Let me know what you think.

    Appreciate the feedback.
    Dean.
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  18. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #18 Steve Magnusson, Apr 17, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2020
    That's the typical "import" emission modification to add a (quasi) Lambda system to a K-Jet without Lambda model when needed to be legal. The thermoswitch discussed before is necessary to "tell" that added ECU "when cold, don't use the O2 sensor output" and "when warm, go ahead and use the O2 sensor output". You should have a frequency valve (the gizmo in the purple circle) added into the WUR plumbing like this:

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    Do you have such a thing in the plumbing bundle running under/along your airbox?

    Do you still have an O2 sensor and catalytic converters?

    Here's another example of this quasi-Lambda modification on a euro 328:
     

    Attached Files:

  19. Tonksy1

    Tonksy1 Karting

    Jun 21, 2016
    91
    New Zealand
    Looks like you may have hit the nail on the head thanks Steve. Yes I do have one of those frequency valves in the fuel line like in your pic. I don't have any cat converters, the cars running a larini exhaust system,(on the car when I bought it).
    Does this mean my unit may not be running correctly? I would prefer to make the car full Euro again if this is possible.
    The car is running great, but now has me wandering if it could be running better?

    Dean

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  20. mike996

    mike996 F1 Veteran

    Jun 14, 2008
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    Sounds like it's all sorted out - at least the reason/purpose for the mod. :)

    I thought it would be fairly easy to determine what that part was with the numbers but I tried as well, going through several electronics suppliers like DigiKey, etc and couldn't come with anything either! :( BUT...now that you know essentially what it does, you can decide whether to leave it in place/be sure it's working OK or remove it.
     
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  21. mcimino

    mcimino Formula 3

    Oct 5, 2007
    2,266
    Long Island, NY
    What ever it is, I would replace those sheet metal screws with small nuts and bolts. Those exposed pointy screw tips don't look toontidy.
     
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  22. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jan 11, 2001
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    No - no effect on performance and/or runability with, or without, this added system (other than the added weight).

    It may impact the resellability by reducing what markets where the car could be sold and increasing the cost of restoring such a system if needed (save it all in a box with some notes if you do decide to remove it). For the injection stuff, it's as easy as removing that added line with the frequency valve and using shorter banjo bolts (and fresh sealing washers) on each end where it was connected (and removing all the added wiring/electronics) -- but the A/F mixture may need to be reset.

    You'd need to be careful removing the fuel evap system -- the black charcoal canister mounted near the dogbone and that added thermoswitch/resistor (This is a very passive system and is completely independent from the injection stuff so no sin to keep -- if you can pretty it up ;)). The canister itself is the air vent for the gas tank; whereas, on a euro version, there's a hose off the filler neck that acts as the air vent (and is routed in a way to prevent fuel from coming out if the car goes upside-down). The mistake would be to just block everything off -- which would seal-up the gas tanks, and they would collapse as the fuel pump removed gasoline with no air vent..
     
  23. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jan 11, 2001
    25,145
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    Thought that I had a pdf copy of this:
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    to post for you to print out and put in the box ;), but I can only find this cover picture. If someone's got the content of this, please post.
     
  24. Tonksy1

    Tonksy1 Karting

    Jun 21, 2016
    91
    New Zealand
    Thanks Steve. My car also has the original fuel breather pipe off the fuel filler neck, all intacked.
    I would like to find out if this lambda system is actually working, considering I have no o2 sensor. I have found a couple of snipped off wires which I believe at least one must have gone to the oxygen sensor. Also one of the pipes coming from the fuel evap system is disconnected and looks to have once been intersecting one of the hoses coming from the left side of the plenum. If I disconnect everything (my preference), can I leave the frequency valve in place for now,and remove it further down the track on another project?
     
  25. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jan 11, 2001
    25,145
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    Steve Magnusson
    [QUOTE="Tonksy1, post: 147167175, member: 196455"...If I disconnect everything (my preference), can I leave the frequency valve in place for now,and remove it further down the track on another project?[/QUOTE]
    Not sure (without having a copy of that DC Johnson manual to read). As a test, you could just unplug the added frequency valve -- if it still runs well, then, yes, you could just leave it unplugged and leave that line in place until later.
     
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