Retracement VS. Reversal? Impact on Luxury Market (including Ferrari)? | FerrariChat

Retracement VS. Reversal? Impact on Luxury Market (including Ferrari)?

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by rvp325, Apr 9, 2020.

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  1. rvp325

    rvp325 Karting

    Apr 30, 2019
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    New Jersey
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    Rahul
    In the post-COVID era, some economists have forecasted a precipitous drop in demand (read: "demand destruction") for luxury goods.

    Please take a moment to read the following article published on SEEKING ALPHA by Albert Goldson.

    https://seekingalpha.com/article/4336732-luxury-markets-brutal-restructuring?utm_medium=referral&utm_source=apple.news

    Out of nothing but curiosity, I am eager to read what my fellow F-chatters believe, for better or worse. For starters, I, myself am an optimist. My wife and I are both physicians in an area hard hit by COVID (Essex County, New Jersey) and our hospital is at the point where we are using our operating rooms as ancillary rooms to mechanically ventilate patients. My wife is an ER doc and triaging COVID patients and PUIs non-stop, although we are perceptibly peaking (good news?). Nevertheless, we both opt to focus on the large number of patients that do well, recover, are successfully extubated and/or discharged home. Our Medical Center has handled the situation quite well and has, for the most part, remained on top of things. We have ventilators and PPE. Nursing staff, the true front line are in dire shortage, however; the nurses are the true soldiers.

    Majority of the physicians we know in all the various specialties (barring ER & ICU medicine), e.g. Neurosurgery, Orthopedics, Cardiology, GI, etc. etc. have been cut off from essentially all elective work. COVID has been (appropriately) prioritized above all else. As an aside, I do find this problematic. A multitude of conditions that are not necessarily "STAT" are temporarily being de-prioritized, e.g. new cancer diagnosis. Surgery in general is designated for cases that threaten "life or limb" only. Naturally, even medical professionals are facing salary cuts, abbreviated hours, and taking massive hits to their portfolios, benefits, etc.

    Every week I'm learning of generally profitable businesses suffering: restauranteurs, retailers, hospitality, etc. It's just brutal. I feel for all these industries. Broken down succinctly, whether a company survives has mostly to do with degree of serviceable (and unserviceable) debt, cash flow, and liquid reserves. There will be winners...and unfortunately, some losers in this fight.

    So...RETRACEMENT VS. REVERSAL on luxury goods, including, but not limited to (dare I say it)...Ferrari?

    Rahul

    **Invariably, there are members of this community that have been personally affected by this in a strictly medical sense. I wish nothing but the best to each and every one of you on this site if this applies to you. The health and well-being of our loved ones is of paramount importance.
     
    SCantera, anunakki, Themaven and 4 others like this.
  2. BMW.SauberF1Team

    BMW.SauberF1Team F1 World Champ

    Dec 4, 2004
    14,244
    Stimulus (quantitative easing) will again cause asset price inflation like it did QE1+ after temporary demand shock subsides. That in turn will lead people to buy things that are perceived to hold value...assets (stocks, real estate, art, jewelry, collectibles, etc, including blue chip cars).
     
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  3. Parnelli

    Parnelli Formula Junior
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    First of all a big thanks and congratulations to you and your wife. The work that you guys are doing in these tough times are going to be much appreciated by your community.
    Second of all, most luxury items IMO will not come back the way that they did after the financial crisis. That was a different era. People don’t fall for the same trick over and over again.
    People have lost loved ones, their jobs, and large parts of their personal net worth. Your priorities are not going to be
     
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  4. rvp325

    rvp325 Karting

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    Great point. Unfortunately, my 1993 348 Speciale is not considered a "blue-chip" car...LOL, although in truth, I bought it to drive the hell out of...which I do :)
     
  5. Parnelli

    Parnelli Formula Junior
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    Sorry, hit send too quickly!
    Anyway their priorities are not going to be to go out and buy luxury assets any time soon.
     
  6. rvp325

    rvp325 Karting

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    Parenlli, haha, no problem, I catch your drift. That seems more than intuitive. I see that you are a UBS Wealth Manager. I can only imagine the insight you have...

    Thank for the kind words. Believe me, most healthcare providers we know do not consider themselves "heros". We are only doing what we are trained to do, albeit under duress. But proudly doing so. True service means not pre-ordaining it "service" beforehand. You just sort of do it... :)
     
    Julia likes this.
  7. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky F1 World Champ
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    Sep 18, 2002
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    The consumption of luxury goods will subside for a little bit, but as people forget about this latest bump in the road..it will go back to normal until the next time. OR..it could make people just say "frig it" I'm going spend on stupid stuff!! I could die because some idiot ate a bat or whatever.
     
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  8. 4_Eff_Sake

    4_Eff_Sake Formula Junior

    Jul 30, 2016
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    You talk like a) this is the end of civilisation, and b) humanity will just stop aspiring to a better quality of life.

    In every crash and crisis, there are some that are irreparably hurt, some who suffer temporary setbacks, and some that actually benefit to a greater or lesser extent.

    But this is not be the end of the world, and like every other crisis, this will likely usher in a new wave of opportunity, which will ultimately benefit those astute enough to see the opportunities and capitalise on them

    As for luxury goods, they are aspirational. Just because people suffer setbacks, does not mean they stop aspiring to a greater quality of life, which includes luxury items. Have you/we stopped aspiring to own Ferrari’s? For me personally, the answer is no. Would I rush out and order another tomorrow? No (especially as the factory is closed until further notice). But do I expect to at some point in the future? Absolutely.

    At this point, it’s a matter of the luxury brands surviving the next (I’m guessing) 18-24 months - longer for some, shorter for others.

    But if they can survive, demand for luxury items will most certainly return
     
    anunakki likes this.
  9. rvp325

    rvp325 Karting

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    Understood. And quite frankly, I lean towards that feeling, as well. Please see my OP carefully. I sought folks' sentiment on the issue. And your response is excellent. I did not write the article on SEEKING ALPHA. It is a viewpoint some economists have.

    To reiterate, the much of the media (and even medical community) are fixated on # of cases, deaths, etc, but many of us are directing our focus to the # of cases that recover and do well. I do not feel that this is the end of the world, not by a long shot. It exposes our vulnerability, sure...but this will not tamp us out.

    And as far as seeking opportunity amidst the mess we have, 100% agree, some will find ways to capitalize. Maybe not to the extent of PERSHING SQUARE ...or Taleb's UNIVERSA....but along those lines.

    I wish you the best.
     
    4_Eff_Sake likes this.
  10. henryr

    henryr Two Time F1 World Champ
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    a good friend of mine is friends with some local prominent restauranteurs in town. guys in their 40-50s

    they are getting pounded. not sure if they are going to make it but if they do, all are considering cutting back operations and their lifestyles.
     
  11. rvp325

    rvp325 Karting

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    I have heard the same....but on the flip side, if they do survive, in time the business will boom. Pandemics as deadly as they are infrequent. In some modified form, we'll be dining out and banging our beers together in due time.

    Quarantine, Mitigation, all these terms and concepts were theoretical until now. Moving forward, we will have a better grip on pivot maneuvers. Restaurants could be forewarned and unique action plans, etc. Who knows, this may make us ALL a bit more robust...as Nassim Taleb says, "anti-fragile".
     
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  12. JCR

    JCR F1 World Champ
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  13. rvp325

    rvp325 Karting

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    Rahul
  14. rvp325

    rvp325 Karting

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    Thecadster and 4_Eff_Sake like this.
  15. henryr

    henryr Two Time F1 World Champ
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    jeffries priced those fertitta bonds on friday i think double digits yields
     
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  16. LVP488

    LVP488 F1 Rookie

    Jan 21, 2017
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    Unless the whole world collapses (and hopefully we're not there) there will still be demand for luxury goods - but in any situation, there is a level of balance. The new situation (whatever it will be) after this crisis will have its level of balance, and the big question mark is how far this new level will be from the previous level.
    Initially it will probably be lower, because people will be more cautious, being more concerned for their future.
    Longer term previsions are more complex - over time people will forget the fears, and could even want more immediate satisfactions to cope with the anxiety.
     
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  17. thorn

    thorn F1 Rookie
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    I've gone from "cautiously optimistic about retirement" to "this is a damned bloodbath, and I'll be working as a Walmart Greeter when I'm 80."

    But I've not even remotely considered selling my Ferrari. Don't know if that answers your question or not.
     
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  18. JTSE30

    JTSE30 F1 Rookie

    Oct 1, 2004
    3,249
    Austin TX
    I think an important "positive" to come of this is:

    This is the last coronavirus that will be able to cause a panic.

    Why?

    Simple,

    We will have at least 2 cures for it!

    * HydroxyChloroquine + Zinc (and maybe Zpak if some secondary infection is present)

    and

    * Leronlimab

    Both are in clinical trials right now for C19/coronavirus impacts and results and both are doing well in their respective trials

    Thus, by the next time another "wet market" mystery coronavirus shows up, we will calmly see it dispensed with ease.
     
  19. thorn

    thorn F1 Rookie
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    If it were true, that would be great. But the planet's response to Corona is such that I've most of any faith I had in the sensibility of humanity. The next irrational disease will simply bring a new, more robust round of what we're experiencing now.
     
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  20. rvp325

    rvp325 Karting

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    Funny, yes perfectly captures your sentiment :)
     
  21. Themaven

    Themaven F1 Rookie

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    Rahul, gratitude and sympathy to all you physicians and medical professionals, as well as everyone else on the front line. You signed up to save lives, but not this, to be there at risk of massive viral doses, when the rest of us are just locked in our homes worrying about our businesses - if we are lucky.

    I work in the luxury business which has essentially pressed pause for the next six months. To answer your question, it's impossible to know what happens next there. There will be big suffering for a while. But demand for stuff springs back very fast after catastrophes. Examples: the roaring Twenties; Germany's economic boom less than 10 years after the Holocaust; Russia fuelling the new luxury market in the 90s less than a decade after the deprivation of the 80s, and so on.

    Our situation now could go on for months or years, many will die. Others will lose their livelihoods, and I don't kid myself that I could be in either or both or those categories. But demand bounces back, and despite EVs and the like, Ferrari is still the number one luxury brand in the world.
     
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  22. rvp325

    rvp325 Karting

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    Thank you for the kind words. I appreciate your thoughts. Your historical perspective on the value of luxury goods is telling. Luxury goods do not exist in a vacuum - there has to be demand. And as one our fellow F-chatters put it, they are "aspirational"...meaning they represent people aspiring towards an item or object (or fantasy) that represents an ideal. Luxury goods are the sine quo none of a life of stability. That is what they truly represent, IMHO. Hopefully, the "pause" as you put it is ephemeral, and the boom kicks in sooner than later.

    PS. I've been driving my 348 to the hospital more than I usually do. And to and from, I get a lot of fist pumps and thumbs ups from the (few) others on the road. Seeing a Ferrari whiz past still makes people smile. In a way, it's pleasing to see how, even times such as these, the glimpse of red Ferrari still brings people joy. Call it...a fringe benefit of ownership.
     
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  23. Themaven

    Themaven F1 Rookie

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    A 348 is cool looking in a way a brand new Ferrari might inspire a different reaction..kudos and enjoy. I have driven my Ferraris more, recently, also - mainly because of a curious combination of lockdown and unseasonably good weather in England. In affluent Hampstead, two joggers gave me the finger - with impressive eyesight, they started when I was 200m away, and continued as I drove past. I could have been a physician or a psycho, but it was against their rules. I am glad you are amid less intolerant people.
    And we all need joy right now.
     
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  24. ago car nut

    ago car nut F1 Veteran
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    You know what they can do with that Finger!
     
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