F8 vs Pista sound | Page 2 | FerrariChat

F8 vs Pista sound

Discussion in '458 Italia/488/F8' started by LMH, Apr 7, 2020.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. Shadowfax

    Shadowfax F1 Rookie
    BANNED

    Jun 10, 2016
    4,066
    Australia
    No got one already. Love it as do I love my Pista a 3r.2. I'll take a 765 though to add to my stable if you have one to spare. Out of curiosity are you suggesting Pista is as angry and track focused as your gt2? Although going by your user I think I already know what your answer will be hahahahaha.:D
     
  2. LMH

    LMH Karting

    May 5, 2019
    195
    Spain
    Still at the dealer in lockdown mode. Will report back when I have it
     
  3. LMH

    LMH Karting

    May 5, 2019
    195
    Spain
    How do you know that no F8 Pista coming?. It makes no economical sense for Ferrari as a business
     
  4. Gh21631

    Gh21631 F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 24, 2011
    8,325
    East
    Its not, it was confirmed by an exec at FNA a few months ago at an event I was attending. Now could something change, who knows. Perhaps Ferrari becomes desperate and chooses to alienate a large customer group that they would have lied to.
     
  5. LMH

    LMH Karting

    May 5, 2019
    195
    Spain
    I'm sure it will exist, look at history: the Challenge, the Scuderia, the Speciale, the Pista,... it makes no sense not to make it, as they make more money with the special editions than with the regular ones. They even already has the engine, the V8 from the SF90... they need to fight McLaren and their 765LT back... it will happen, you'll see
     
  6. Gh21631

    Gh21631 F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 24, 2011
    8,325
    East
    I am not going to argue points, it is what it is.
     
    Caeruleus11 likes this.
  7. LMH

    LMH Karting

    May 5, 2019
    195
    Spain
    Again rumors, but my dealer, with connections close to the CEO at Ferrari, told me of course it is happening.

    Time will tell us my friend, but this one is a no brainer!
     
  8. Pis7a2020

    Pis7a2020 Formula Junior

    Dec 17, 2019
    665
    I did get an allocation offered just yesterday on the 765LT, still debating it. Supposedly Q4 delivery without accounting for any Covid delays. If you would like the option/price list, let me know.

    In regards to the Pista vs 2RS, yes, by far. To me the 2RS is drama free, a very calm and controlled car to drive. It’s very precise and of course fast. However, relatively no emotion or exhilaration for me. I find that my 991.2 GT3 was more involved.

    Here is the 2RS just yesterday. Probably taking her out later today :)

    Image Unavailable, Please Login


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
  9. Coincid

    Coincid F1 Rookie

    Dec 9, 2014
    3,577
    Canada
    The sense of excitement and thrills a car can evoke is subjective and differing opinions claiming otherwise is simply nothing more than noise.
     
    LMH likes this.
  10. LVP488

    LVP488 F1 Rookie

    Jan 21, 2017
    4,839
    France
    But for some, noise is everything :D (sorry I couldn't resist)
     
    Coincid likes this.
  11. JTSE30

    JTSE30 F1 Rookie

    Oct 1, 2004
    3,242
    Austin TX
    Today is the one year anniversary of my post on this very subject:

    https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/whats-the-latest-on-additional-pista-allocations.597867/page-2#post-146547089

    Summary:

    Pista and F8 both released ahead of schedule based on February 2017 EU ruling requiring huge reductions in particulate matter emissions, only successfully possible via fitment with GPF
    started by this from November 2016:
    https://www.wardsauto.com/engines/clean-gasoline-proposals-fuel-environmentalists-ire

    The F8 was released early so the 488/Pista could be be 'end of life' and Ferrari was guaranteed the ability to produce 488/Pista into MY2020, but has to be done by summer 2020.

    The F8 was released with GPF to meet new EU regulations (that were imposed on larger manufacturers in Sept 2018, such as Porsche). It will have a 2 year run and that's it. No time to put together an F8-VS edition (i.e. EU2022 Chassis changes, more below).

    It simply made zero sense to add GPF to 488 for an additional production year (to make it 5 years total).

    Due to more EU changes requiring chassis changes (links below), all existing Ferrari products must be redesigned by MY2022 (exceptions for "end-of-life" vehicles).

    The 812GTS was also "rushed" because of this, and it will have GPF (as we all now know).

    These EU changes are "exhibited" by Ferrari's need to release so many new models, because everything changes (unless Ferrari can receive abrogations which is not a reliable way to do business, hoping for them to occur).

    The SF90 was also rushed, still not in production nearly a year after announcement, and Ferrari "shot themselves" in the foot and killed the 812SF (coupe) order pipeline, it dissolved when the SF90 was announced, went from 18month backlog to 0month backlog of orders.


    = = =

    What I wrote then is still true today (below repeating from that post and one other, which are from a different thread):


    The F8 was apparently launched one year ahead of expected schedule (i.e. 5 year run would normally have been expected for the 488, it is also apparently why the Pista was released a year earlier than expected as well), and the F8 shares same chassis as the 488/Pista. I think the F8 was rushed through development to get it ready for 2020 production (which will require GPF, and the F8 will have GPF fitted, that is already announced) so no time to create new chassis, etc.

    And yes, no point in re-engineering the 488 to be fitted with GPF for its 'final production year' so the F8 was created, increased power, etc. I expect the F8 to be around for at least 3 model years before replacement though there is a chance it will only be two, depending on how well the F8 can be made to comply with 2022 EU regulations:

    https://etsc.eu/in-vehicle-technology-vital-to-tackling-speeding-in-europe/

    http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-19-1793_en.htm

    https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/288592-eu-wants-speed-governors-data-recorders-in-cars-for-2022

    https://www.motoringresearch.com/car-news/speed-limiters-eu-cars-safety-2022/

    safety zones for cyclists/peds:

    https://ecf.com/news-and-events/news/eu-mandatory-vehicle-regulations-pave-way-great-leap-cycling-safety

    https://ecf.com/news-and-events/news/eu-agrees-making-road-infrastructure-safer-cyclists


    and then later I followed up with this:

    I can pretty much guarantee 2 year run, because of EU 2022 changes will likely require chassis modifications:


    https://www.motoringresearch.com/car-news/speed-limiters-eu-cars-safety-2022/


    http://www.europarl.europa.eu/meetdocs/2014_2019/plmrep/COMMITTEES/IMCO/DV/2019/04-01/COREPER_ANNEX_GVSR_EN.pdf


    primarily these:


    Head impact zone enlargement
    In the name of pedestrian safety, the size and safety of your windscreen glass are going to change on new cars. In theory, new cars and vans after 2022 will have windscreens that offer greater protection in impacts, for when airbags are insufficient. We’re sure car designers may have thoughts on the possible implications of this…


    Improved pole side protection
    Cars and vans will also have to improve pole side protection. This is the scenario during an NCAP safety test where a car is moved at speed side-on towards a concrete pole, with the impact being more or less in the middle of the car. It is an extremely severe test of vehicle crash-worthiness: making the regulations even stricter could prove challenging to vehicle manufacturers.


    Improved seatbelts and occupant protection
    This does what it says on the tin. We all use seatbelts and, from 2022 in new cars, they’re set to get better, with the aim of further of improving full-width frontal safety.
     
    Caeruleus11, F12JAJ, BCHOW and 4 others like this.
  12. Gh21631

    Gh21631 F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 24, 2011
    8,325
    East

    Funny, I feel the same about my manual GT3. Its just fun and makes a good noise but if I had to pick one it would be the Pista.
     
    spyderman, Caeruleus11 and Pis7a2020 like this.
  13. Texas2step

    Texas2step Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Mar 25, 2018
    299
    Full Name:
    Bola olusola
    Lots of reliable data in your post as always. The question is will some of these EU regulations be relaxed or temporarily suspended due to the impact of the Corona Virus? This may change the landscape in the next few years.
     
  14. JTSE30

    JTSE30 F1 Rookie

    Oct 1, 2004
    3,242
    Austin TX
    Thank you,

    Even if the regulations were relaxed/delayed, automobile manufacturers have long lead times (typically years) and probably would not matter much to the overall plans since a delay would only allow existing models to continue a little longer, but would still eventually be replaced.

    And, there's working theory that the EU itself could be disbanded, well, then you have a lot of unknowns so safest "bet" would be to continue on course as the path of least resistance given the course has been set.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/04/03/coronavirus-edging-us-towards-eurozones-collapse/

    If the EU regulations were dropped, not relaxed and the EU disbanded, I think there would be a lot of chaos and most countries previously in the EU would likely continue on the same regulatory path currently set until such time as it is all reviewed and new regulations created.

    Overall, if the current discussion was regarding what Ferrari would be doing in 2025 or beyond then changes could be made, but given current scope of 2-3 years, unless derogations have already been granted, and as shown on page 65 here:

    https://corporate.ferrari.com/sites/ferrari15ipo/files/ferrari_-_annual_report_2019.pdf

    It does not appear Ferrari has any intention of requesting derogations from new crash-test requirements set forth by the EU:

    In May 2018, the European Commission adopted a proposal for a regulation to make certain vehicle safety measures mandatory. On March 25, 2019, the European Parliament, Council and Commission reached a provisional political agreement on the revised General Safety Regulation. As of 2022, new safety technologies will become mandatory in European vehicles, such as Advanced Emergency Braking, Emergency Lane Keeping systems, crash-test improved safety belts, intelligent speed assistance and warning of driver drowsiness or distraction.

    So, it would seem Ferrari's current plans are quite immovable...
     
    Caeruleus11, Texas2step and LMH like this.
  15. Challenge64

    Challenge64 F1 Veteran
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Jul 28, 2004
    6,299
    Full Name:
    Ron
    I was in Italy 8 weeks ago at the factory for a VIP intro to the new Formula 1 car and track time on Fiorano with the F8 and asked about a special version of the F8 and was told no it is not happening.
     
  16. ppg70

    ppg70 Formula Junior

    Aug 22, 2017
    928
    No F8 VS.....as told many months ago
    Pista the last V8 no hybrid VS
     
    Caeruleus11 and LMH like this.
  17. C50

    C50 Formula 3

    Aug 19, 2016
    1,729
    808
    Does anyone have insight (or speculation) about what Ferrari will do with their backlog of Pista orders? If 8/2020 was the deadline for building (if), what will they do after production resumes? Seek regulatory exemption so they can complete the orders on the books? Just cancel Green 10 and earlier orders while finishing everything with a VIN?
     
  18. LVP488

    LVP488 F1 Rookie

    Jan 21, 2017
    4,839
    France
    I don't think they have that much backlog for Pista / Pista spider (and there may still be a few cancellations), they delayed a lot the F8 production (and I suppose they can continue to do so if needed - they certainly make more money on Pista than on F8).
    That will lead to an exceptionnally short run for the F8, with basically one single year (2021) of full production...
     
    LMH likes this.
  19. LMH

    LMH Karting

    May 5, 2019
    195
    Spain
    There is definitely many more of you stating F8 special version is NOT happening.

    As nothing is oficially confirmed, my view is that: they already have the chasis, the V8 engine form the SF90 (780 hp), add some carbon fiber here and there, charge 100k more than a standard F8, and you got a decent car that most of us will want to buy. And all of this with very limited R&D investment from Ferrari.

    Are they going to let McLaren 765LT be the king of that category without a fight?
     
  20. LVP488

    LVP488 F1 Rookie

    Jan 21, 2017
    4,839
    France
    They may run out of time - and they may also want to pretend keeping some credibility with their customers.
    So another possibility would be a "kit" on the model of the previous HGTC / HGTE - less ambitious (and less expensive) than a special version that would have the risk to get people tired.
     
  21. LMH

    LMH Karting

    May 5, 2019
    195
    Spain
    No F8 special series will mean the F8 will really be the last of something, the last V8 non hybrid. Add that they must not be able to make it for many years, then in some years it might be something special.

    Once you go hybrid, the progression of the batteries is almost exponential, they are of no interest to me. I have a Tesla which I love, I see no point on the hybrid (and I had one). For me it's either pure combustion or pure electric, middle way hybrid is just to "fool" the EU contamination tests.
     
    Randyslovis likes this.
  22. Pis7a2020

    Pis7a2020 Formula Junior

    Dec 17, 2019
    665
    Correct, that’s why it’s called Tributo. A tribute to the TT V8 before they move on to Hybrid.


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
    Caeruleus11 likes this.
  23. JTSE30

    JTSE30 F1 Rookie

    Oct 1, 2004
    3,242
    Austin TX
    Please know that an F8-VS simply is not possible due to structural chassis changes required by EU2022 regulations. The F8 chassis is basically the 488/Pista chassis which is very close to the 488 chassis.

    (technical details)
    https://globalautoregs.com/rules/201-pole-side-impact-protection

    overview graphic:
    (open the PDF link within)

    https://ec.europa.eu/docsroom/documents/34588

    None of those chassis are compliant with EU2022 regulations.

    So, simply dropping a new engine into the F8 and calling it an VS cannot happen because there would be no time to sell the car, at least in the EU.

    Yes, Ferrari could make an F8-VS with no intentions of selling it into EU, but they have never made such a choice for a what would be a regular production model. There's always a first time, but seems unlikely.

    Continuing, EU2022 regulations are calendar year, meaning starts January 1, 2022.

    An "end of series" vehicle is allowable to not comply but its production allowance is "earned" based on a percentage (typically 10% of prior year production, varies between countries) prior year production.

    So, an F8-VS would have to be in production in CY2021 to earn such an end of series designation and then only about 10% of prior year production.

    some references to end of series earning/allowance:

    https://www.vehicle-certification-agency.gov.uk/legislation/end-of-series-derogation-applications.asp

    https://www.rsa.ie/RSA/Your-Vehicle/Vehicle-Standards/End-of-Series-Vehicles-/

    With such tight timelines and no such model announced, it is highly unlikely Ferrari would dedicate the money and resources to simply "break even" or less.

    These same reasons are also likely to stop the 812VS from occurring as witnessed by the rushing to get the 812GTS announced (last September) and into production (starting very soon) so that it can be "built out" into CY2022 as an end-of-series model.

    As for the McLaren 765LT, isn't that a response to the SF90? At least until McLaren has a hybrid model.
     
  24. Rrr1

    Rrr1 Formula Junior

    Dec 24, 2018
    347
    Full Name:
    Rrr1
    Heard the same no special f8 - from FNA.
     
    Caeruleus11 and LMH like this.
  25. LMH

    LMH Karting

    May 5, 2019
    195
    Spain
    Thanks for the info, very interesting

    One question, how do you know the F8 chasis is not compliant with Pole side impact nor Head impact zone enlargement EU2022 regulations?

    I can see those are the usual crash tests, right?:

    https://www.euroncap.com/en/vehicle-safety/the-ratings-explained/adult-occupant-protection/side-pole/

    If it is about making it stronger maybe that's something they can easily make it?. As per the "Head impact zone enlargement", I guess sports car will continue to exist, so maybe the F8 shape meets it?

    I fully agree with you they will not make it only for non EU countries
     

Share This Page