488 - Pistas selling for less than MSRP... | Page 14 | FerrariChat

488 Pistas selling for less than MSRP...

Discussion in '458 Italia/488/F8' started by 09Scuderia, Mar 27, 2020.

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  1. Shadowfax

    Shadowfax F1 Rookie
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    Jun 10, 2016
    4,066
    Australia
    #326 Shadowfax, Apr 5, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2020
    Thought it was the other way around as Gt2s are asking mid 6's to low 7's and on or two to late 7's and Pistas are asking somewhat more. There is even a non WP 2rs for mid 5's. Not that it matters as I doubt either are selling least of all easy at moment. It doesn't look good for those needing to get out....very grim.

    Looking at the classifieds now there's 3 Pista's one for 699 plus on-roads (600kms), one for 899 plus on-roads (700kms) and another for 759 plus o/r (700kms). Quite a bit of variance indicating no one really knows where to pitch at the moment. The one for 699 has been there for a while now so he's dropped a fair bit from where he was (must be getting desperate to liquidate). In this market it'd be anyone's game now - certainly wouldn't want to be selling a Pista or a GT2 in the current market or, for the foreseeable future. There will be some cheap cars to be had i suspect. And for this reason alone no way would I be queuing up to pay retail for an F8. That would be setting yourself up for slaughter! I reckon you'd be able to deal into one of those Pistas for less than a spec'd F8 for sure. I mean what choice do they have if they can't leave it sit forever. None. So it will come down to taking the bird in the hand!
     
  2. BG23

    BG23 Formula Junior

    Jun 16, 2015
    437
    Australia
    In Australia a new GT2RS was $645k plus on roads excluding Weisach - which every test I've seen including this one has had. From memory alone that was around $65k. Pista was $610k plus on roads.

    In the UK a 488 pista costs 252,765 pounds vs 207,506 for a GT2 RS.
     
  3. BG23

    BG23 Formula Junior

    Jun 16, 2015
    437
    Australia
    Had a look at that $699k pista - that car (ex stamp duty) would have been $658k by my calculations. Will it sell at that? In this environment I doubt it as well.
     
  4. Pis7a2020

    Pis7a2020 Formula Junior

    Dec 17, 2019
    665
    Man, you really love your GT2RS. Lol

    I bet you come on here to bash the Pista and then go to the Porsche forum to bash the GT2RS hahahahaha.

    Honestly, you know I have both cars. I disagree with almost everything that you post. I’ve said this before, I must have a lemon of a GT2RS and a ringer of a Pista. The Pista, IMO, is superior to the GT2 is almost every quantifiable and subjective way that I can think of.

    Don’t get me wrong, I love my GT2RS just like I love my manual M2C and a few of my other cars, but they don’t play in the same space.

    Having said this, if you want a legit track car, get a race car. The difference between a Challenge/Cup Car and their track oriented street counterparts is night and day, not even close in any real regard. For example, a 2RS on Tropheo RS is 6 seconds slower than a GT3 Cup car, on the same track and same driver.



    Also in regards to the 2RS MR, it’s a highly tuned car. Fastest street legal car around the Nurburgring. A stock time comparison would be more appropriate.

    Btw....the mobile app doesn’t seem
    To be tracking notifications anymore, so I don’t get alerts. If it takes me a few days to reply, you know why.




    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
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  5. Thecadster

    Thecadster F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 27, 2017
    6,705
    I have often wondered that myself. Why don’t more people just get dedicated race cars? Much safer, and presumably easier to run being that they’re designed expressly for the rigors of track life.
     
    IloveGT likes this.
  6. Shadowfax

    Shadowfax F1 Rookie
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    Jun 10, 2016
    4,066
    Australia
    #331 Shadowfax, Apr 5, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2020
    I totally agree with BG23 in that the Gt2 definitely behaves more as one would expect a track version to behave in the way it delivers certain sensations, sensations which clearly differ it from the pure road going version of that model range. The Pista claims to be a track version of the model range but in reality it feels and drives just how you would expect their regular road going version to drive sans a bit of sound deadening removed.

    Sure Pista is blisteringly fast and very capable - lays down very good times etc - and so it should, but it does very much drive like a road going version more than anything else. I certainly love my Pista and appreciate it fully for what it is and, what it can do, but calling it out for what it is not a crime or anything to feel ashamed about, although it would appear for some odd reason some here are getting a bit brand/badge sensitive over the matter, but at the end of the day it doesn't alter the facts. One only need look at the ride height and wheel gaps on the car, the lack of certain adjustments in the suspension, and the way it drives in a very uncompromising manor in terms of DD comfort to see it has some way to go before claiming to be a track special. This is also why I have commented that F8 felt to me somewhat lost in the mix of variants being a step back from what most would want and expect anyway from this level of exotic as a road going version. No point crying foul about it or making snide remarks to others who don't agree with you. Take it up with Ferrari.

    My take on that is when a car is up to track duty then why not take it to the track and stretch its legs rather than trying to exploit the potential on the street which may wind up in loss of license or, being put behind bars. Maclaren, Porsche, Ferrari and Lambo all make their cars so they can be taken to the track - just some manufacturers clearly do a better job out of it than others. Having a dedicated track car is always an option many of us take up but it doesn't stop, nor should it stop an owner from taking their road car for a track day. And it is there more often than not the weak sides of the car manifest.
     
  7. noone1

    noone1 F1 Rookie
    BANNED

    Jan 21, 2008
    4,612
    Los Angeles
    Full Name:
    Mike
    Two obvious reason:

    1. They don't go to a track enough for it to be worth it.
    2. It's a hassle if you don't live near a track since it will require trailering.
    3. They can't stomach not being seen in a relatively modern exotic at the track, making it (1) not worth it for how often they go to the track.

    Plenty of affordable race cars out there, but I get the impression a lot of exotic owners wouldn't want a "mere" Cayman Clubsport or something like that.
     
    Shadowfax likes this.
  8. Dontbethatguy

    Dontbethatguy Karting

    Nov 25, 2017
    68
    ATX
    I’d pass on that car in a heartbeat. My buddy that owns a dealership in Austin was just offered an 812 with 430 miles on it for $100k back of MSRP. Guy has owned it for a few months, and he still passed. I’d buy one used and keep the $100k of initial depreciation in your pocket. They’re still going to lose value, but at least you don’t have to take all of that hit. I bought my ‘14 F12 with 4,100 miles in November 2017 for $270k and sold it for $210k last August with 6,000 miles. Even in a good economy, it’ll continue to tank. You just have to be okay with it if you buy one.
     
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  9. Shadowfax

    Shadowfax F1 Rookie
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    Jun 10, 2016
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    #334 Shadowfax, Apr 5, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2020
    Valid points noone1!

    Another reason is to use the car in a safe environment (track) and become properly trained/skilled to exploit everything the car has to offer. Driving a high powered car on the street without having a full understanding of its behavior is also very dangerous imho. The more skill you have with the car the safer you can drive it on the road without wiping yourself out or, getting wiped out by some other idiot which you aren't skilled enough to avoid. Accidents can happen at very low speed too.
     
  10. Coincid

    Coincid F1 Rookie

    Dec 9, 2014
    3,577
    Canada
    Track times are of little importance to me. For me it is not so much as how fast you reach your destination compared to the thrill engendered during the journey. This applies to street use and the track.
     
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  11. johnr265

    johnr265 Formula Junior

    Jul 1, 2010
    398
    Mid-Atlantic
    #336 johnr265, Apr 5, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2020
    I'll add to that.
    1) Need a proper tow vehicle which sits other times (except snow and hauling the kids junk) as I'd rather drive fun cars
    2) Need enclosed trailer (open possible but many race cars have no windows) and you need to get it serviced yearly
    3) Car sits in the garage more than driven
    4) A car with a roll bar is not street legal without a helmet. Therefore, to get work done on it, you need to hook up the rig load it up in the trailer, unload it, get the work done, load it up again, bring it home, and unload it and put everything away. Less of an issue if you do the work yourself which I mostly prefer anyway. I had to get a windshield done and they refused to do it on site. It was an all day affair!
    5) Plenty of times where you get to the track and didn't realize something didn't work because you are not regularly driving the car
    6) Very difficult to sell a used race car which is why they go for so cheap!

    Now, to be fair, the pros:
    1) Much safer having 6 point harness, hans, fire suit, steel cage surrounding you, and fire suppression. I feel so much safer once belted into my car than when I'm in the passenger seat instructing someone in a street car (and not just because of the novice driver behind the wheel of a weaponized 500+ hp car:p)
    2) Agree with what everyone has said. There is NO ONE on this forum or on the planet that would enjoy a real racecar on the street. They are often not even fun to drive around a parking lot. Harsh doesn't even begin to describe a proper race suspension. Clutches can be like on off switches, many do away with power brakes and power steering. All of those things on the track though make the car feel directly plugged into your brain with a post directly through your a*$
    3) Speed differences of a race car to street car as others have said is laughable
    4) I have no problem with image. My track only car right now is a Z06 Corvette which hit the sweet spot between speed, safety and running costs. It's a brute and devours GT3s for lunch!

    All in all, I wouldn't trade the experience for the world but it is not for everybody. Driving the Pista gives me 90% of the FEEL with only 20% of the tradeoffs.
     
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  12. Shadowfax

    Shadowfax F1 Rookie
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    Jun 10, 2016
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    Agree.

    So many get caught up in the bar talk aspect of which car is faster or produces the best times - meaningless when it comes down to how the car actually drives and connects.
     
  13. wrs

    wrs F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Jul 11, 2015
    11,921
    Lakeway, Texas
    Full Name:
    William
    Well I took delivery of it but I got an exceptionally good trade value on my 2018 488 Spider with 4500 miles considering the current market. It was a $319k msrp and I got $250k in trade and with the 6.25% tax, that saved me another $16k. If I had sold my car on the open market I would have needed to get $267k in order to match that. So then my car would have depreciated only $52k in two years. That is another way to look at this, what would someone trying to sell their 2018 488 Spider expect to get right now?

    I think I will be keeping this car for a while although the SA has already asked me if I want the GTS and I told him yes but not sure I will be able to buy it.

    Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
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  14. dustman

    dustman F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jun 12, 2007
    8,935
    +1000
     
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  15. Dontbethatguy

    Dontbethatguy Karting

    Nov 25, 2017
    68
    ATX
    Congrats! You did incredibly well on the trade of your 488 spider, and tax savings are definitely a plus, too. Certainly easier to justify when they’re helping on the trade value. Drive it, and don’t look back. We’re all in a small boat where we can afford cars like these, and they’re meant for maximum enjoyment!

     
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  16. johnr265

    johnr265 Formula Junior

    Jul 1, 2010
    398
    Mid-Atlantic
    Beautiful spec (love the TdF wheels and so light!) and yes, that is a VERY fair trade value for the 488 right now. Enjoy it and don't look back! The V12 is glorious.
     
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  17. Thecadster

    Thecadster F1 Veteran
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    Apr 27, 2017
    6,705
    I probably should have said, I wonder why more people to whom track performance is absolutely critical and who spend a ton of time with cars on the track, don’t just secure a dedicated track car? I understand all the obstacles. For me, I don’t have much fungible time. I have done the Corso Pilota once at Road Atlanta, fell in love with track driving, did substantial research and determined that when I decide to throw more time at the track, I will do so with a dedicated track car. I decided that not because of speed and performance, but because of safety. I think that road cars compromise too much in that department for a non-pro racer to ever feel fully comfortable.

    In the meantime, I bought a full motion racing simulator for home use. I can “track” and “race” any time I want. Denny Hamlin used the same set up when he recently won the iRacing event. I know it’s not the real thing, but it gets me pretty dang close, and at a price point that was workable for me.

     
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  18. Dontbethatguy

    Dontbethatguy Karting

    Nov 25, 2017
    68
    ATX
    How many guys with any of these cars truly track them like they’re meant to be driven? I have a GT2 RS, but I have a ‘19 Corvette Grand Sport that I use for track days. Way cheaper to maintain, better balance of power for my level of skill, manual trans, and my head won’t implode if I hit a wall. LOL

    I shouldn’t like my 458 spider as much as I do if I look at stats on paper. I never thought I’d sell my F12, but after I added the 458 to the stable I didn’t want to get in my F12 anymore. The 458 makes 170 less HP, but it’s so amazing to throw into corners. So predictable, nimble, and perfect balance of power. The IPE exhaust with the baffles open is nothing short of amazing every time, especially when you’re pushing it hard. I drove a 488 and had no desire to trade up. Yes, it makes more power, but the sound isn’t the same. The 458 is just as much about the sound for me as it is the driving experience. I’ve been watching the Pista market for a few months, and if prices keep declining I’ll likely pull the trigger in the next few months. But, I won’t get rid of my 458 spider.

    The first Pista I’ve seen under $400k was just posted on DuPont Registry. Another $50k of squashed values, and I’ll buy one in a heartbeat. I’ll have the car long after the economy recovers, and anyone that watched car values through the last downturn will know that there will be some opportunity buys. Will be interesting to see where the Pistas ultimately land in value over the next 12-18 months.

    https://www.dupontregistry.com/autos/listing/2020/ferrari/488--pista/2214211

     
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  19. AlfistaPortoghese

    AlfistaPortoghese Moderator
    Lifetime Rossa

    Mar 18, 2014
    3,778
    Europe, but not by much.
    Full Name:
    Nuno
    Sweet deal and great spec! Enjoy in good health!

    Kind regards,

    Nuno
     
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  20. Dontbethatguy

    Dontbethatguy Karting

    Nov 25, 2017
    68
    ATX
    What setup do you have? I’ve been looking at getting one as well.

     
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  21. SoCal to az

    SoCal to az F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 25, 2012
    14,209
    Arizona
    Ok need details on this please. How much was this? Need to add some toys to the man cave/golf simulator room.
     
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  22. dustman

    dustman F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jun 12, 2007
    8,935
    #347 dustman, Apr 5, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2020
    You won’t like the pista based on your experiences. Sound...
     
  23. plastique999

    plastique999 F1 Veteran
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Nov 9, 2008
    8,539
    SoCal
    Full Name:
    Edward
    Well there’s something to be said for a hybrid...when I started racing LotusCupUSA my first car was a street Elise that slowly got modified over time to the point I added a cage.
    It was fun to drive to the track, race, and then come home. It was Not fun when the car broke down.
    So then I moved to a 211 (my avatar), which I had to trailer to the track. It took a lot more work to load the trailer, etc. Definitely more purposeful, but more work, more storage, etc.
    Now if I had all the $ in the world, I’d buy a house and garage at Thermal race track, leave the race car there. Fly to the track, hire a pit crew and voila!


    Sent from my 16M
     
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  24. plastique999

    plastique999 F1 Veteran
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Nov 9, 2008
    8,539
    SoCal
    Full Name:
    Edward
    Agree with all above...
    Wow the Pista is in Speciale territory already ?!


    Sent from my 16M
     
  25. galileo

    galileo Formula Junior

    May 20, 2011
    333
    There isn't a single 2020 Pista Spyder for sale on auto trader.
     

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