fat billy bob or bruce plugzit please help me | FerrariChat

fat billy bob or bruce plugzit please help me

Discussion in '348/355' started by tommygunct, Apr 2, 2020.

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  1. tommygunct

    tommygunct Karting

    Dec 26, 2012
    174
    Stuart florida
    fat billy bob or plugzit bruce can one of you guys please call me my Left Bank on my motor keeps shutting down on my 348 I've tried and changed just about everything I don't know what else to do I'm at a standstill tommy gun 2036408962
     
  2. tommygunct

    tommygunct Karting

    Dec 26, 2012
    174
    Stuart florida
    ive changed coil. plugs. crank sensor. switched ecu's changed o2 sensors cleaned and greased connections switched plug wires switched relays for fuel pump and injectors car starts up runs fine for about 15 mins then starts to break up if i pull the ecu plug it does nothing if i pull the other it dies right out would the tps switch have anything to do with it ??? i didnt change the spark relay cuz even when it ****s out it still has spark goin thru the plug wires could it possibly be the injecters?? but why would it run perfect then not?? i even changed the fuel filters between this coronavirus and this car I think I'm going to light myself on fire
     
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  3. johnk...

    johnk... F1 World Champ
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    Jun 11, 2004
    10,625
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    John Kreskovsky
    Assuming I interpret what you wrote correctly, since it runs initially for 15 minutes that pretty much rules out compression and cam timing. Since it still has spark on the side that cuts out, after it cuts out, and since the entire banks dies, that would seem to indicate fuel delivery problem. Have you monitored fuel pressure on the dead side?
     
  4. Ferrarium

    Ferrarium F1 Veteran
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    #4 Ferrarium, Apr 2, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2020
    FPR, coils, ignition modules, tps and fuel pumps or wonky injectors, cam position sensor comes to mind. Things work different when warmed up. Much of that you can cross reference to other cars like coils and ignition modules are used on porches I bought them all new from re-sellers for like $70 a piece. You can also swap those bits easily from side to side and see if the problem moves (except the fuel pumps obviously) Injectors you can have cleanes and rebuilt pretty darn cheap.

    Probably not the cam sensor BUT Folks say the cam sensor is either good or bad ad works or fails, mine failed slowly and I chased endless problems till I replaced that on a WTF may as well I replaces everything and I mean everything else. 10% of the time REALLY poor idle just surging and hunting till it warmed up and it got worse and worse over time until it exhibited the behavior almost every start over a 6 month period and I started the car every week. Yep it was the cam sensor failing slowly.
     
  5. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    26,288
    socal
    To follow up on johnk statements with limited data I would run car and as it breaks up what happens when you spray some starter fluid in the dying back side? Can you run the dead side on starter fluid? When car dies will it restart and run for 15mins again or dead until it is cold in the morning? I would also like to know fuel pressure. I used to run 2 pressure gauges on my 348 racecar. They are easy to splice in permenent or temporary but then you probably don't have that stuff around the house so start with the spray you get it from autoparts store.
     
  6. jjtjr

    jjtjr Formula Junior

    Aug 29, 2016
    668
    Vermont
    Full Name:
    john truskowski
    Would it be better to use gasoline in a spray bottle in lieu of starting fluid? I would be nervous with starting fluid on a high compression engine. Maybe even carb & choke cleaner?
     
  7. taz355

    taz355 F1 Veteran
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    Feb 18, 2008
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    You do not have to spray much just give it a shot and if rpm goes up it’s fuel
     
  8. emac

    emac Formula Junior
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    Sep 14, 2014
    851
    upstate SC
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    ernest
    I had an issue of the engine cutting out when I made a turn. It was a small coolant leak that was getting into the crank sensor connector plug and shorting it out. The codes were helpful in diagnosing, and I really didnt figure it out until I unplugged the snesor when I was swapping it and coolant came out.
     
  9. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    26,288
    socal
    LOL Ferrari crank sensors are always suspect. Thinking that, and KIA sensors being so cheap, I bought 6 of them about 15 years ago. I put 2 in the car and still have 4 new in a box!!!
     
  10. m.stojanovic

    m.stojanovic F1 Rookie
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    Dec 22, 2011
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    Did you switch engine ECU-s or Exhaust ECU-s (SDECU-s)?

    As suggested, it might just be the crank sensor but you said that you replaced it.

    If it is not the crank sensor, the other thing that can cause bank shut-down is the Exhaust ECU. If you have the black Exhaust ECU-s with a 6-pin connector, it is the purple/white wire (at the loom side of the connector) that sends the shut-down signal to the engine ECU, to its Pin 52. Normally, there is zero volt on this wire but, when the bank shut-down is required, the Exhaust ECU sends +12V to this wire and to the engine ECU Pin52. You can tap into this wire and see whether it carries +12V when you experience bank shut-down.
     
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  11. johnk...

    johnk... F1 World Champ
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    #11 johnk..., Apr 3, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2020
    No crank sensor = no spark. But he said the dead bank still has spark. Not to mention that he said he changed crank sensors.
     
  12. johnk...

    johnk... F1 World Champ
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    Jun 11, 2004
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    #12 johnk..., Apr 3, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2020
    Or, look at the signal to one of the injectors. You can get a noid light for Bosch connectors for about $5.
     
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  13. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
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    I agree with Miro.

    I would try running the engine and wait for the bank die, then try disconnecting the cat tcu for the bank that died and see if it starts right back up. If it does, you either have a bad cat tcu or a bad thermocouple.

    If that doesn't work then you may want to pull the fuel pumps and check the condition of the vibration dampening sleeves. They do corrode and crumble over time. If they need to be replaced use an aftermarket set made from Viton. Here is the diy thread from when I did mine. https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/348-fuel-pump-rebuild.224988/
     
  14. taz355

    taz355 F1 Veteran
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    Feb 18, 2008
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    Ernie what does small vibrations do to the fuel pump, make it cavitate?
     
  15. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
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    It's possible the deteriorated rubber sitting in pump cup could clog the screen on the bottom of the pump, which could cause fuel starvation. Once the engine is shut off, the pump stops, rubber settles back on the bottom of the cup. Turn the engine on again and it runs until the screen gets clogged again. That's my guess. Won't know for sure until he puts a fuel pressure gauge on the rail to see if it's looses pressure while running, or pulls the pump/s and inspects the dampener/s.
     
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  16. Surfari

    Surfari Karting

    Nov 4, 2016
    149
    Redondo Beach
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    Luke
    After my last misfire, I'm a huge fan of cleaning all plugs and connections. Couldn't hurt and oddly therapeutic. Throw the Kia sensors in while you are at it. If you have spark, they won't do anything to help this problem, but may save you some grief down the road.

    On another car, after the engine was warm, the car would never start. No fuel. Turns out my cam sensor was going bad. The installation broke down and changed the resistance of the sensor while warm to the point where the ecu couldn't understand the signal. Your running fine for 15 min really makes me think it's sensor related.
     
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  17. Ferrarium

    Ferrarium F1 Veteran
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    No one ever attributes issues to it the the cam sensor, but when it slowly goes bad it can cause all kinds of run related issues that can make you chase your tale. I bought new OEM one from Tom Vail for $100.
     
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  18. m.stojanovic

    m.stojanovic F1 Rookie
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    It is one cam sensor serving both banks so, if it is going bad, I don't think it would affect only one bank.
     
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  19. johnk...

    johnk... F1 World Champ
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    After the bank shuts down 1) check fuel pressure, 2) check injector function.
     
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  20. tommygunct

    tommygunct Karting

    Dec 26, 2012
    174
    Stuart florida
    well guys thanks to Ernie ..and bruce plugzit finally figured out what was wrong with my car after everything I did was still doing the same thing and you know what it turned out to be boys the simple old rule always check your grounds I took all my grounds off clean them brush them put them back on I put an extra chassis ground and an extra motor ground to the chassis and now it runs perfect again always always always check your grounds first I did a ton of work but it's okay at least I know it's done and the car runs perfect thanks guys thanks Ferrari chat and thank U Enzo
     
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  21. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Excellent!

    Thanks for the update Tommy!

    Just to let you guys know, poor Tom was at his wits end. On top of everything else Tommy did before, he then swapped the fuel pumps from side to side (btw, did you ever get the new Viton sleeves for the pumps?), Motronic ecu's from side to side, swapped the fpr's from side to side, changed out the injectors for a different set on the bank that was giving him issues = issue still appeared on the same bank of cylinders.

    So I then suggested he check the barrel connectors under the plenum, and all his grounds. As Tommy said, the grounds where the issue.

    At least it did cost you any more money Tom. And you aren't the first guy to get bewildered by a bad ground. That's why I suggested checking it. Been there done that. ;)
     
  22. Ferrarium

    Ferrarium F1 Veteran
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    Good to hear. Extra motor ground I get but what was the extra chassis ground?
     
  23. Koenig1

    Koenig1 Formula Junior

    Aug 25, 2016
    328
    Ottawa ON
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    Sandy
    heheh! You can never have enough grounds! Short story, many years ago, son gets his 1st Maxima. Away at university, he takes it to the Stealership for 'check wallet' light. They tell him he needs a new Wire Harness(engine to inside dash) at a cost of $3K Can. I talk to the Service, this Tech is his #1 mechanic!!!! Son comes home for Xmas, I replace said Harness($400. used) in the f--king Can winter, rest, all is well. Week later back at school, same ****. Idea hits me, so he(not mechanically inclined) bolts up some ground wires to engine & chassis from neg bat. Ran fantastic until a Text'er hit him a year later from behind> totaled! We had 4 Nissans, 2Maximas, 1Altima, 1Murano, and all had the headache of bad grounds once 100k kms dialed up...
    Tommy, glad you worked it out.... and reported back!
     

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