488 - Pistas selling for less than MSRP... | Page 13 | FerrariChat

488 Pistas selling for less than MSRP...

Discussion in '458 Italia/488/F8' started by 09Scuderia, Mar 27, 2020.

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  1. Co-sign on this.

    Debating lap times is all fine and well, but it is not (and should not) be the end-all-be-all metric for judging which two cars are better.

    For example, the current 'Ring time for the Porsche Taycan Turbo S is ~7:42, which is nearly identical to a 997 GT3 'Ring time and about 5 seconds quicker than a 599 GTB.

    Does that make the Taycan a better car simply because it is as fast or faster than its ICE counterparts? No, because of the different ways the cars drive, and the visceral experiences each vehicle provides to the driver.

    Ultimately, buy the car you enjoy, and enjoy the car you buy.

    Everything else is just irrelevant noise.
     
    Drson likes this.
  2. SoCal to az

    SoCal to az F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 25, 2012
    14,209
    Arizona
    I have a lead on about 40 Pistas of varying color and specs. Different msrp as well. If anyone is interested, please visit www.autotrader.com


    (lol sorry, couldn't resist)
     
  3. AlfistaPortoghese

    AlfistaPortoghese Moderator
    Lifetime Rossa

    Mar 18, 2014
    3,778
    Europe, but not by much.
    Full Name:
    Nuno
    I couldn’t agree more.

    Numbers on a piece of paper don’t mean much to me. It’s all about how the car behaves, handles and how it makes you feel.

    When it comes to Ferrari, it’s a matter of how do you want to experience the whole Ferrari experience.

    In terms of what you’re looking forward to experience, the 458, 488 and F8 have nothing to do with one another. There’s no right or wrong here. Some men prefer blondes, other brunettes. No better or worse: just different. Choose what you fancy.

    Because, for instance, if we look at 0-60 times...

    458: 3.0 seconds.
    488: 3.0 seconds.
    F8: 2.9 seconds.

    That tells you nothing. It’s marketing. Unless you’re a professional driver competing in a world championship, 0.1 is theoretical and even so it can be compensated by other means.

    Metrics alone aren’t the ultimate judge of the true nature and greatness of a car. Metrics alone, when applied to cars, is like statistics which in turn is like women’s bikinis: they show a lot but always hide the essential.

    Kind regards,

    Nuno.
     
  4. plastique999

    plastique999 F1 Veteran
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Nov 9, 2008
    8,539
    SoCal
    Full Name:
    Edward
    Nice trilogy!


    Sent from my 16M
     
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  5. Thecadster

    Thecadster F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 27, 2017
    6,702
    Coming from you, that is quite a compliment. Cheers.
     
    plastique999 likes this.
  6. Ash Patel

    Ash Patel Formula Junior

    Dec 12, 2015
    536
    Stockholm, Sweden
    If you notice historical threads with this user involved he/she surely acts like a detective and puts out accusations which he/she feels entitled to. Most fun thing is this user does not contribute much to any threads and with that I mean really help out Ferrari-owners with issues but rather post one or two post in a while with the tone above righteously noticed by you.

    Heck this user even scared of a European user with multiple Ferraris from this forum. It's very sad with grown ups acting like this sitting behind their keyboards, let's see how many here including this user that dares knock on my door telling me some if this stuff face to face ;)
     
    Coincid likes this.
  7. Gh21631

    Gh21631 F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 24, 2011
    8,325
    East
    We have some giants on this thread. Perhaps we can get some of you guys together and start a basketball team. :)
     
    Clay512TR, Drson, Shadowfax and 2 others like this.
  8. Coincid

    Coincid F1 Rookie

    Dec 9, 2014
    3,577
    Canada
    Nothing or anyone is capable of intimidating me in person let alone anonymously behind a keyboard. This fellow is welcome to press the ignore feature so he will not see any of my posts.
     
    Condor Man likes this.
  9. plastique999

    plastique999 F1 Veteran
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Nov 9, 2008
    8,539
    SoCal
    Full Name:
    Edward
    I find it interesting that people question the comfort of the “race version” models. I’ve taken my 16M on several road trips with the wife, as well as the Speciale, and both cars feel plenty comfortable for us.
    Is the 458 that much more comfortable than the Speciale? Too me, no...
    I’d take Pista over its regular production variant or successor 7 days a week.


    Sent from my 16M
     
    Clay512TR, ScudLife, johnr265 and 3 others like this.
  10. plastique999

    plastique999 F1 Veteran
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Nov 9, 2008
    8,539
    SoCal
    Full Name:
    Edward
    Wow, perfect spec... pics?!
    Curious miles and price?


    Sent from my 16M
     
  11. Coincid

    Coincid F1 Rookie

    Dec 9, 2014
    3,577
    Canada
    Those who do not track are adverse to daily driving a car that for example, is devoid of carpeting or interior insulation or whose transmission mapping is more abrupt in gear transition or a suspension that is stiff and unforgiving.
     
  12. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Veteran

    May 29, 2019
    6,023
    Hopefully some place nice.
    Full Name:
    A.B
    Indeed Nuno

    Those numbers are pretty funny actually. It's always interesting when people mouth off such numbers, and then watch their jaw drop, when they realize that the paper lied. Forget the paper and sense what the car does.
     
  13. ScrappyB

    ScrappyB Formula 3

    Oct 3, 2017
    1,368
    Full Name:
    T
    #313 ScrappyB, Apr 4, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2020
    Modern ‘hardcore’ editions are not very compromised in my opinion. A Pista is a Cadillac compared to an F430 and a 991 GT2RS is more comfortable than a 993 C2 etc. The majority of owners use these as weekend toys so I would say that the extra bit of rawness is welcome most of the time. In other words, the track focused variants deliver a driving experience that is closer to what many enthusiasts want on the street from the standard model. I think this is especially true as regulations have made cars larger, heavier and quieter which is counter to the traditional ethos of a sports car.

    Will be interesting to see what the take rate is on the SF90’s Assetto Fiorano pack. From what I’ve heard, it’s very high. It was the first option I ticked. I wouldn’t be surprised if Ferrari offers an AF-like option on the F8 replacement.
     
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  14. Shadowfax

    Shadowfax F1 Rookie
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    Jun 10, 2016
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    Australia
    #314 Shadowfax, Apr 4, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2020
    But this is the point i'm making coincid, the gearshifts are not uncomfortably abrupt and the suspension is not stiff, jiggy or rigid. The only time the shifts turn into canon fire is when you get right up it and at those times this is exactly what you'd expect from the this type of exotic vehicle anyway, even as the regular version. Keep in mind the seats and interiors of each variant are of the exact same comfort level as one another so again other than a bit less sound deadening in Pista there isn't any compromising going on anywhere at all. And you only need to drive a Pista to get a handle on all of this - and when you do it will be then that you question what the hell am i doing in an F8 when the behavior of the car is just too soft and muted for the type of car it is!? And this is where it may as well be wearing a Bentley or an Aston badge because the driving characteristic simply doesn't match the exotic exterior design, so other than having huge power there is really nothing special or exhilarating going on, and that makes the experience very mundane and underwhelming unless you are trying to break the sound barrier.

    Pista is also nothing like a GT Porsche for example where you could question whether its suited to DD duties because of having the rigidity and immediacy over a regular sports car. I can honestly say Pista is very much a regular sports car where you could putter around in it in a lazy and relaxed driving fashion without any discomfort at all. Anyway you will get to know what I'm talking about at one point once you drive it and I would certainly advise you (knowing what you expect) to do so before committing to an F8.

    I recall my first drive in mine and tbh I was expecting a much more compelling and vigorous experience over the regular 488 and it's only when you get stuck into the throttle where you find notable differences. Even the loss of sound deadening doesn't come into play on most road surfaces during regular DD type driving and it's mainly only when you are at speed over course blacktop that the lack of deadening could be quoted as being an issue for some.

    Frankly Pista is a car you could quite easily change the entire suspension for a harder more rigid set up to make it match its namesake, so to compete in the same emotional driving sense as a Gt2 in the way it feels and behaves as a track or special version.
     
  15. Shack

    Shack F1 Rookie
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    May 2, 2005
    2,503
    Earth
    Having spent quite some time in the McLaren 570S GT4 - pure track car (really a 570S but track only) , I would not bother with any road car on the track. Everyone of them is compromised.
     
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  16. Shadowfax

    Shadowfax F1 Rookie
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    Jun 10, 2016
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    Very true - just some are really just road cars in every sense pretending to be track versions. Pista is very much a rd car. Pop some sound deadening into it and it should have been the F8. I don't know what the F8 was supposed to be. Maybe a Aston or Bentley S alternative?
     
  17. Shadowfax

    Shadowfax F1 Rookie
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    Jun 10, 2016
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    #317 Shadowfax, Apr 4, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2020
    Totally agree with you ScrappyB. These so called hard core versions are not hard core at all....far from it!!

    Agree particularly with your description with Pista being a Caddy and Gt2 is more comfy to drive than my old 993 for sure. Absolutely no question about that. I'm wondering who was Ferrari making the F8 for. Granny? Or the Butler? Pista should have an F8 badge on it, and Pista should have had much more mongrel built into it. Maybe Ferrari thought a stripe and a bit of CF was all that was required to make into a track version? The suspension also should be fully adjustable for all set ups like what Porsche puts up.

    As I said earlier Ferrari need to recruit the Germans in Weissach to sort their track versions out properly so at least there is a good baseline for the users to work from. Reading the ring taxi's latest account on how the coilovers could only be wound down 10mm is a piss take....and no adjustable sway bars...like wtf?..this is not a track version at all. It's a bloody road car with a stripe and a bit of decorative CF splashed around.
     
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  18. mdrums

    mdrums Formula 3

    Jun 11, 2006
    2,172
    Tampa FL
    I honestly would be more engaged here with more track talk. Lap comparing, video data, alignment and ride height, tires, mods geared towards performance and so forth. I miss that from my Porsche ownership and track days.

    I can also say that my 488 is much softer than my 991 gt3. I haven’t had my 488 on track yet to compare but I am very curious.
     
  19. Shack

    Shack F1 Rookie
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    May 2, 2005
    2,503
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    Thats why the forthcoming Huracan STO will be such a beast - a Super Trofeo for the road - cant wait
     
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  20. Shadowfax

    Shadowfax F1 Rookie
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    Jun 10, 2016
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    #320 Shadowfax, Apr 4, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2020
    At my last track day a few weeks back before everything got shut down I was having some one on one training in the Gt2 with a well know racer here - young guy - won some very well known races here and in Europe and, he had some interesting things to say about his track time in a 720s Gt2, 488 and Pista. He said 720 and gt2 were so close in time, got within a 10th of a second between each other. 488 and Pista you don't want to know. I'd need to put a flame suit on before I told you guys what he said. I was really hoping he was going to endorse the Pista but.....and then how do you argue with a guy with his track record? Was kinda disappointed to hear what he had to say tbh.
     
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  21. Shadowfax

    Shadowfax F1 Rookie
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    Jun 10, 2016
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    Nah forget it bro. Firstly I wouldn't fit in it - over 6'. Secondly id prefer to put a manthey kit in the 2rs and smoke the lambo for breakfast. :D
     
  22. Shack

    Shack F1 Rookie
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    May 2, 2005
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    Wishful thinking - STO will destroy the 2RS - and wont need any mods.
     
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  23. Shadowfax

    Shadowfax F1 Rookie
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    Jun 10, 2016
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    In which dream bro? Either way by then 765 will be out and will wipe the floor using STO as a mop.
     
  24. ChipG

    ChipG Formula 3

    May 26, 2011
    1,722
    Santa Monica, CA
    WOW! Actually, 55 Pista's for sale right now on AutoTrader.com
     
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  25. BG23

    BG23 Formula Junior

    Jun 16, 2015
    437
    Australia
    Some won't like it, but I think a good number of people are happy to hear comments both good and bad. Based on my experience the GT2RS seems to be more "track focused" than the pista.

    As far as times go. To me I think the shootout with Ollie Webb driving at silverstone was a good benchmark - as it involved customer cars. The times were as follows
    1. Senna 1:06.38
    2. GT2 RS 1:08.54 with Manthey tweaks and CUP2 R
    3. Pista 1:09.47
    4. Aventador SVJ 1:10.09

    The comments from Ollie was the GT2RS had a very aggressive camber setup which made it the hardest to drive. Which probably makes it the faster if you're Ollie Webb but slower for a decent amateur driver. Certainly the Cup 2 R's will make a good amount of difference compared to the pista's Cup2 K series (a more wet weather friendly version of Cup 2's).

    In any case for the GT2RS to be only 0.9 s a lap faster with those improvements tells me these cars are very closely matched. Is the Gt2RS the better value track weapon? In the UK and the US where it's significantly cheaper than the pista... I think yes, but in Australia the pista is a good amount cheaper than a GT2RS.
     
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