FF PTU Design Flaw. | Page 17 | FerrariChat

FF PTU Design Flaw.

Discussion in 'FF/Lusso' started by officeline, Aug 17, 2019.

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  1. Nospinzone

    Nospinzone F1 Veteran

    Jul 1, 2013
    7,346
    Weston, MA
    Full Name:
    Paul
    I would also, but I thank Steve (SAFE4NOW) because he always contributes such valuable information.
     
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  2. Way2fast

    Way2fast Formula 3

    May 24, 2006
    2,207
    Santa Barbara County
    Full Name:
    Sam
    I purchased my 2012 FF last year, 2 weeks before the last of the 7 years of maintenance was due. The owner had the last service done (28k miles) and I was able to purchase the one year powertrain warranty for $5760. This can be extended every year until car is 15 years old or 56k miles.

    Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
     
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  3. SAFE4NOW

    SAFE4NOW F1 Veteran
    Sponsor Owner

    Aug 25, 2004
    5,378
    Dallas Texas
    Full Name:
    If you know you know

    That is correct, though for a few hundred dollars more you could’ve had the eighth year service included with the new power warranty you purchased ( wink )

    Steve
     
  4. baguns

    baguns Karting

    Sep 19, 2012
    246
    Yorba Linda, CA
    I’m not sure if this sounds right or not. I purchased the FF from Ferrari ft Lauderdale and this is how the warranty was written up. I didn’t get a certificate or any additional paperwork on the warranty. They said it’s on their “system” based on the VIN. I live in California and took my car to Ferrari Newport Beach who fixed the problem under warranty and I didn’t have to pay anything. Honestly I don’t know what warranty I have. Image Unavailable, Please Login


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  5. Natkingcolebasket69

    Natkingcolebasket69 F1 World Champ

    Great post. Seems pretty pricey to fix. People complain about the cost of older Ferrari’s to fix because of the belt service but really since they end up cheaper.
    Like u I am also surprised at the amount of faulty PTU claimed here. Seems high and I asked my local shops and it seems that it is not as frequent as it seems. Seen more dct for sure.


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  6. LeoBRK

    LeoBRK Formula Junior

    Sep 26, 2010
    452
    NYC
    Full Name:
    Leonardo
    I have the same power warranty 2 years., with the official certificate. If it was the PTU its covered but the braided steel line that supplies the oil to the PTU was faulty and this is not covered they "claim". Car has only about 6k miles, can't figure out how that line goes bad so fast. Car has and always is garaged and driven normally. $4k for a steel line and labor- WOW! Still waiting to hear back from deanship if there is anything that can be done.
     
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  7. Way2fast

    Way2fast Formula 3

    May 24, 2006
    2,207
    Santa Barbara County
    Full Name:
    Sam
    What eight year service? I thought all Ferraris sold in US only have 7 yrs of service

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  8. SAFE4NOW

    SAFE4NOW F1 Veteran
    Sponsor Owner

    Aug 25, 2004
    5,378
    Dallas Texas
    Full Name:
    If you know you know
    Ferrari offers a “New Power Warranty” option that includes the next years annual service. This option is called “Main Power Warranty”.

    So, if during you visit for the 7th year service you choose to add a year of New Power Warranty , you would simply ask for one year of Main Power Warranty. ( And by “ask” I mean it should be offered to you )

    This is accurate for your 8th year, 9th year, and so on!

    Hope this helps,

    Steve
     
  9. SAFE4NOW

    SAFE4NOW F1 Veteran
    Sponsor Owner

    Aug 25, 2004
    5,378
    Dallas Texas
    Full Name:
    If you know you know

    If you want , send me a PM with your Chassis number , I will look it up and confirm what warranty the FF has.

    There is no certificate from Ferrari that says “ you have New Power Warranty “ and if a vehicle has it, it truly is “ in the system “ ( MODIS ) and may be search by any Ferrari dealer in the network.

    S
     
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  10. LeoBRK

    LeoBRK Formula Junior

    Sep 26, 2010
    452
    NYC
    Full Name:
    Leonardo
    Steve PM sent thanks
     
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  11. Way2fast

    Way2fast Formula 3

    May 24, 2006
    2,207
    Santa Barbara County
    Full Name:
    Sam
    I think that 2 yr is only if you buy the car from a dealer. I purchased from a private party

    Sent from my SM-T580 using Tapatalk
     
  12. LeoBRK

    LeoBRK Formula Junior

    Sep 26, 2010
    452
    NYC
    Full Name:
    Leonardo
    that is correct
     
  13. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 22, 2002
    18,766
    leo how did u end up with all this?
     
  14. LeoBRK

    LeoBRK Formula Junior

    Sep 26, 2010
    452
    NYC
    Full Name:
    Leonardo
    so my dealer told me I was initially denied by FNA.. I advised them that a fellow fchat member who purchase his ff around same time had same problem and is was mysteriously covered under the power warranty? This Member was kind enough to share his invoice in full details to me and I forwarded to my dealer, they resubmitted and FNA approved it!!! if not for me researching on this site and reaching out to him I would have had to pony up $4000!
     
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  15. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 22, 2002
    18,766
    Awesome good news. To be clear - what was the 4k for?
     
  16. LeoBRK

    LeoBRK Formula Junior

    Sep 26, 2010
    452
    NYC
    Full Name:
    Leonardo
    Dealer:

    “There’s a braided steel line that feeds oil to the PTU that is leaking. Difficult to say if it is “damaged” or just faulty. The PTU itself seems OK. Because of the leak in the line, there isn’t sufficient pressure going to the PTU, hence the warning message on the display. Good news is that we can fix. Bad news is that the line is not covered under New Power extended warranty. Looking at around $3800.00 to replace including tax."
     
  17. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 22, 2002
    18,766
    So is that the same line p1 fixed for me for 400 bucks? Seems like it.
     
  18. LeoBRK

    LeoBRK Formula Junior

    Sep 26, 2010
    452
    NYC
    Full Name:
    Leonardo
    LOL. I’m no expert but sounds close enough to me! the fix wasn’t overly costly in materials and labor for the problem by any means and I’m very used to paying premium for servicing on my cars but I thought this was an Little bit overpriced
     
  19. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 22, 2002
    18,766
    Haha glad it worked out!!!
     
  20. LeoBRK

    LeoBRK Formula Junior

    Sep 26, 2010
    452
    NYC
    Full Name:
    Leonardo
    Very much so! Thank you F chat! I’ll be sure to thank the fellow member in Person one day when things get back to normal.
     
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  21. Nospinzone

    Nospinzone F1 Veteran

    Jul 1, 2013
    7,346
    Weston, MA
    Full Name:
    Paul
    Oh yea, like you hit the line with a hammer while you were changing the spark plugs. Duuuuh!
     
  22. LeoBRK

    LeoBRK Formula Junior

    Sep 26, 2010
    452
    NYC
    Full Name:
    Leonardo
    damaged--LOL , I flipped when they said they didn't know if was faulty or damaged. they quickly said, yes mostly likely a faulty line
     
  23. ChrisKing

    ChrisKing Karting

    Dec 29, 2016
    52
    UK
    Hi all,

    I've been asked to give some input on the PTU issues from another thread. We are a small UK based specialist, who has repaired 3 PTU to date. Like many, we felt the cost for replacing these is eye watering, and having had one fail on a used car we sold under our warranty, felt that something can be done. A big thank you must go out to the owner of the car, who worked with us to allow us to carry out the repair. Ferrari will no longer provide a new unit to any independent workshop now as well, all PTU have to be supplied and fitted by them.

    We stripped the PTU down, then had the internal seals manufactured. It's actually a relatively simple unit to open up and repair, just time consuming to remove and refit. The unit is fitted back to the car, but bled away from the car to allow complete access to bleed nipples - 2 or 3 are unreachable once the unit is bolted up.

    The units we've repaired have covered enough mileage for us to be confident of a spot on repair. We've had all cars back to check for errors, and a mixture of the fluids, and all has been well. I've noticed on all cars that the hydraulic system fluid seems to be different from factory fill to what Ferrari now recommend - the factory fill is a deep red ATF, while the workshop manual spec is a gold colour, the specs escape me atm.

    The bleed procedure took some time to get right - luckily we've built up a great relationship with Accini, who sent us a few software files for the Leonardo to get bleeding perfect.

    I wont mention our company name on here, as I'm unsure of self promotion or sponsorship rules - I'm happy to answer questions via PM.

    I hope this helps people out.
     
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  24. ANOpax

    ANOpax Formula 3

    Jul 1, 2015
    1,125
    The Netherlands
    Hi Chris,

    Thank you for posting on this thread. Without asking you to give away the secrets of your hard work, can you tell us more about the failure modes of the PTU (have they all been the same on the 3 boxes you’ve worked on)?

    You mentioned remanufactured seals - what else goes into the repair?

    How much confidence do you have that the units won’t fail again? - is your fix a once and done operation to fix a design or assembly fault or should we see the occasional PTU rebuild as a part of 4RM ownership (a bit like F1 actuator replacement on the old F1 gearboxes).

    Finally, how much do you charge to rebuild the boxes? Will you rebuild them for other independents to fit or is the refitting an essential part of your process? In which case, what’s the cost of rebuild and refit?

    apologies for all the questions but if you are able to offer an effective and affordable fix for the PTU then a lot of FF and Lusso owners will heave a big sigh of relief!

    thanks again.
     
  25. ChrisKing

    ChrisKing Karting

    Dec 29, 2016
    52
    UK
    Hi ANOpax,

    I've inserted answers to your questions.

    Q: Thank you for posting on this thread. Without asking you to give away the secrets of your hard work, can you tell us more about the failure modes of the PTU (have they all been the same on the 3 boxes you’ve worked on)?

    A: They've all shown (from memory) 4WD system failure. All 3 on inspection have had a cross-contamination of fluids between gear oil and hydraulic oil. Speaking with Dick Lovett Ferrari after our first failure confirmed they'd seen this before. As for other issues, I've not seen any so couldn't comment on these.

    Q: You mentioned re manufactured seals - what else goes into the repair?

    A: Replacement seals is the main repair - going on our experience, nothing else seems to be at fault. I've yet to find any bearing, synchro or gear issues. I replace the delivery line from the hydraulic tank, and the tank itself as the pipe has been known to crack and weep. Removing the pipe from the tank is risky as the outlet is brittle plastic.

    Q: How much confidence do you have that the units won’t fail again? - is your fix a once and done operation to fix a design or assembly fault or should we see the occasional PTU rebuild as a part of 4RM ownership (a bit like F1 actuator replacement on the old F1 gearboxes).

    A: We can only base this on customer feedback. The first one we repaired has seen over 10,000 miles on it now. The customer has had it serviced twice since then at Dick Lovett who have checked for issues and reported all was well. The one We did at the start of this year gets a very hard life, failure was at 45k miles. If any car was to have a problem since, that would be the one! We warrant them for a year (would need to check) I'm sure Ferrari only offer a year themselves.

    Q: Finally, how much do you charge to rebuild the boxes? Will you rebuild them for other independents to fit or is the refitting an essential part of your process? In which case, what’s the cost of rebuild and refit?

    A: We have discussed rebuilding for independents, as for the cost of this I couldn't comment. We are happy to do this, but would assume they have at least Leonardo to carry out the correct bleed procedure, and an assurance that the correct spec fluids are used. As for costs, from memory its in the 8-10K GBP range - this is a rough cost though, as I'm a technician so keep out of the costing side of things. It's certainly much cheaper than a dealer.

    Hope this helps!
     
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