Ferrari SF90 Stradale : picture and news thread | Page 135 | FerrariChat

Ferrari SF90 Stradale : picture and news thread

Discussion in 'SF90 Stradale' started by maha, May 29, 2019.

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  1. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
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    #3351 paulchua, Mar 9, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2020
    Pista on the Michelin sport cup 2 K2s (1:32.2) Anglesy

    Senna was 0.85 seconds faster on the same track

    What's most puzzling to me is this. Since you say Fiorano numbers are unicorns and leprechauns, why would you be upset considering it puts the LaF firmly ahead of the Pista?

    So you say the Pista is slower then the LaF, I'm cool with that, and the SF90 too. Okay, sounds good, but wait...that would counter your premise, wouldn't it?

    It's all good, we're all used to you trying to have things 'both ways' in a debate.

    No problemo señor!
     
  2. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
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    I mean, really on the street, unless you're going to street drag - does it matter? If you plan to hit the 1/4 & 1/2 mile circuit, and/or track a lot, then I understand.
     
  3. SAT4RE

    SAT4RE Formula Junior

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    "That is a winner. Stunning machine!"

    And I can confirm that photo is a great representation of how the car looks in reality.
     
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  4. noone1

    noone1 F1 Rookie
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    I really have no idea what you're talking about. I'm saying look at the difference in times between old tires and new tires, then consider the tires on the old cars and make a judgement on how much faster you think they would be on the new tires.

    The Fiorano lap times are all suspect. I don't care which car is faster, I'm just saying that if you're trying to draw some conclusion from Fiorano times, then you should at least adjust them for the tires which are substantially quicker.
     
  5. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Veteran

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    You need to really take a step back and think about this, because your comparisons are all over the place. If you want to do a comparison, that's fine. You should however, not write off the PZC tyres used on the LaF as some old junk that is far from what we have today. Here's a few things for you to consider. In terms of "vintage", the comparable tyre to what was used on the La F is the MPSC2, they debuted around the same time. However, you need to understand that the PZC System tyre, is much more like a Trofeo R, than the current PZC4. The LaF tyre is as far as compound and specs go NOTHING like an MPSC2. I know a LaF owner whom has run both the PCZ System and Trofeo R, and the difference is more or less non-existent. The LaF PZC System compound and Trofeo R compound is nearly IDENTICAL, and they also share the same wear rating of 60. By comparison, the MPSC2 tyre has a wear rating of 180. If you think that running a LaF on MPSC2 vs. running it on MPSC2R is comparable to running PZC System vs. MPSC2R, you are sorely mistaken. I suspect that a LaF on MPSC2R would actually be slower than on its specific tyres, because I can tell you that those are some VERY sticky donuts.

    If you want to compare apples to apples? Fine. Then compare LaF specific PZC System 2, Trofeo R and MPSC2R tyres. The MPSC2 belongs in a different category along with the PZC4 which is much less aggressive than the others.
     
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  6. noone1

    noone1 F1 Rookie
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    I've never seen anything that indicates the PZCS is anything like the Trofeo R. All indications are that the Corsa and Corsa System are quite similar, with one more streetable and better in the wet. Both are billed as top street performance by Pirelli with different tread pattern. Both come in 60 tread rating I believe. Trofeo R looks vastly more aggressive than both.

    From what people have been saying, the latest gen PZC4 is similar in performance to the old Trofeo R, and that the latest PZ is similar to the old PZC4. This would mean the new Trofeo is significantly faster than the old Trofeo and the old System.

    I guess no one will ever be able to prove anything since manufacturers will never do those sort of tests, but all evidence says modern tires are massively better than ones from 5-10 years ago. LF is a pretty old car now and so are those tires...

    There is a reason that no one is using the System tires. Ferrari using Cup2 R, McLaren Trofeo R, Porsche Cup2 R, Lamborghini Trofeo R...
     
  7. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Veteran

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    Just because you have not seen it, does it not mean it's not so. I take the word from a Corse Cliente driver with both F1 and La F seat time over assumptions. If he says they are very similar on his La F, I think he's better suited to know than you are.
    And yes there's a very good reason why the System is not used anymore. There's a newer alternative in the Trofeo R and Pirelli does not develop them anymore. All of that is not the same as the PZC System for the La F is far off from the newer additions. It's not like the Trofeo R came on the scene this summer. It's been out for 5-6 years. In many ways, it can be seen as a successor to the PZC system. Trust me, had the La F come out now, it would either run Trofeo R or MPSC2R. The reason why the P1, 675LT, and Performante uses the Trofeo R is simply that it's the current tyre.
     
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  8. noone1

    noone1 F1 Rookie
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    I believe the Trofeo R today is not the same one from 5-6 years ago. I don't believe the Trofeo R on the P1 is the same as the Trofeo R on the Senna/765 LT.
     
  9. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Veteran

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    I never said that the P1 spec tyre and the 675LT spec tyre were the same tyre, so not sure where you're going with that.
    As for your initial comment here? Trust me, the basic Trofeo R tyre has not changed. You can choose to believe that or not. If not, I see no reason to carry on this debate with you.
     
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  10. jpalmito

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  11. noone1

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    P1 and 675LT used the same Trofeo R tires and they aren't the same as the ones you see on the Performance, SV, Senna, 720s, etc.

     
  12. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
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    #3364 paulchua, Mar 11, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2020
    Motortrend in cahoots too?

    I also showed documented LaF time before and verified by our very own owner/member Matt. Another recorded Pista with Super Cups (not Trofeo Rs), still not enough.

    But the time set was clearly stated not on your beloved Trofeo Rs, which was your contention all along right?

    On MPSC2s...so adding the TRs...

    As I've said, of course, Fiorano lap times are presented through a marketing lens. The critical takeaway is relative performance to one another, not a scientific double-blind, statistically significant white paper. If you have evidence the article below is fabricated, hey, that's fair, if not, well...
     

    Attached Files:

  13. noone1

    noone1 F1 Rookie
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    Sorry, but I just don't buy their times for many of the cars. Sure, different day, different conditions, but you don't have a Pista and an 812 tied at Fiorano, and then the Pista destroying it elsewhere.

    Autocar Dry Handling Track 1:09.30 1:05.30
    Nürburgring Nordschleife 7:27.48 7:00.03
    Vairano Handling Course 1:12.18 1:09.43
    Fiorano 1:21.50 1:21.50
     
  14. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
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    #3366 paulchua, Mar 12, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2020
    It's fine, you're saying Motortrend is lying, and you're telling the truth (no evidence, but hey, whatever.)

    As far as the 812 and Pista, you said 'underrating' cars is not a bad thing, so now you're not okay with it?

    Cool beans.

    It seems like you're a heads you win, tails I lose sort of fella...
     
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  15. noone1

    noone1 F1 Rookie
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    No, what I'm saying is that Ferrari Fiorano times are obviously "managed" since they so often jump in increments of like .5s exactly, and because somehow they manage to get a 812 around as quick as a Pista, even though this doesn't seem possible anywhere else and seems almost impossible.

    Maybe the LF time is legit. And if it is, great, and so you can assume the time now on the latest Cup2 R is much quicker still. What was the SF90 tested on? Who knows...
     
  16. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
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    #3368 paulchua, Mar 12, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2020
    "Asseto" Fiorano literally means Fiorano "Trim/Setup/Configuration." MPSC2s

    For the fifth time, yup, the times are managed, but it doesn't mean that a Pista can't go faster then an 812 or an SF90 can't go faster than a LaF; and at least we're being clear here, you claim Motortrend is lying, that's fine.
     
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  17. SAT4RE

    SAT4RE Formula Junior

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    Here are some more pictures I took last weekend. Again, I think you MUST see this car in person to appreciate its lines. Truly beautiful. The nose looks particularly nice, and was the first thing my girlfriend noticed and commented on. The rear looks far better than it does in pictures, even my cell photos, simply because you can see what's going on in the details. It's not immediately clear in photos. I will say my least favorite part about the rear is the clear engine cover. Honestly, it seems a bit out of place. I'm actually looking forward to seeing the Spider version of this car to see how it will probably be improved by getting rid of that detail, and cleaning it up with simple vents.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  18. noone1

    noone1 F1 Rookie
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    Can you show me where I mentioned Motortrend? I don't remember posting anything about Motortrend...

    I don't know what you're going on and on about regarding MT's lap time. I said a few things:

    1. Fiorano times are managed and questionable, thus can't really be trusted.
    2. The LF on tires from today is likely much quicker than it was when Ferrari got that lap time.
    3. I think it's quite possible that the LF is still quicker than the SF90 if put on the same tires.

    So where exactly do you take issue and why do you keep bring up MT?
     
  19. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
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    Thanks for posting pics! It's definitely growing on me!
     
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  20. jpalmito

    jpalmito F1 Veteran

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  21. maha

    maha F1 Rookie

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  22. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini Two Time F1 World Champ
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