488 488 Pista poor exhaust noise with closed valves

Aside from the sound the Pista is an all around better performer not to mention it looks great. With that said I'm starting to look at Perfs.

 

No regrets. Fun to try all.
Lusso incoming.
And the 765LT.

 

Try to do the first 500 miles and the car will sound better, trust me !

 

I own a pista spider with 600km , I can say you yes! if I should give you a measure of the sound improvement I would say 20% better ... seems that you earn less the noises of the turbine shifting to a more NA sound . I come from a 812 , gtc4 scuderia .. ecc today I am happy with the sound but few miles ago not so much .. I don’t think this is placebo.

 

This is very common with the aftermarket exhausts I have used, as the baffles in exhaust break in sound improves. I'm coming from a Huracan that had a Fabspeed exhaust and that car was very loud and it got a little ofld after 3 years. Got out for a good ride in my 488 yesterday that now has over 800 miles and I find sound pretty good.

 

I miss my Performante. The sound, the rawness. I can see buying one back in the near future.

 

the performante sound is very nice. when I was looking a while ago, one thing i just couldn’t get over with Lamborghini is how the engine is off center. I love how the huracan and aventador exteriors look and how they both sound. the engine bay however looks passed over by their design team and the interior/dash can be a bit too busy to my taste.

those are manufacturer design choices/priorities that I think are subtle and, to some, do not matter. Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

Yes there is a reliable solution. Just get a valve controller. Capristo and Tubi are good choices. The Novi unit is stupidly overpriced last time I checked.

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You will miss it even more soon. Have you considered the STO? The sound of F8 falls a long way short of the Lambo.... I hear only good things about STO.

PS. Il Co- Pilota do you know if Capristo, Novi and Tubi controllers work on Pista? My understanding is they have not worked it out yet. The only one I know 100% works without fault is the Forza.

 

I have seen issues with Forza controllers, latest on a Lusso, so not really trusting them.

My local dealer is also a Capristo distributor. They've done a few Pistas. Never heard of anything. If in doubt, just contact Capristo and have a talk about your concerns - cost nothing.

No personal experience with Tubi, but like with Capristo, contact them and see what they say.

 

No need my end as Forza worked with my tech here using my car as guinea pig - works perfect. My tech wanted to be 100% satisfied before my car left the WS....was in there over a week to get everything sorted inc location, wiring, positions of extra valves etc etc. These guys communicated and my tech here was also in in consultation with his buds in the factory to check certain things re what was possible and not....pitfalls in using etc. Odd you you mentioned problems with the Forza. I had one on my 488 and also worked perfectly. Found it a great product. Was just wondering had the others worked it out. There are a few things that need to be got around to get it to work without issues.

What problems are you seeing on Lusso? Must be install related as many of these have been fitted locally never with any issue. The real problems started with Pista due to the latest systems and I know F8 is off the table. That car is fail -safe going by what my tech said...cannot be got around. How any one can put up with a Pista without this controller is a better man than me. I was that disappointed I was going to lose mine if the sound problem couldn't be fixed and I mean it.

 

I have considered the STO and discussed it with my dealer. Getting an allocation is not a problem but delivery and details are vague at this stage.

 

I just know you'll be gutted with the sound of the F8....and its very conventional/soft. The lambo has so much more sensation with that V10...more raw. No comparison.

 

When we tried the Forza controller on the Lusso, we got a check engine light and the controller would not operate the valves. So took it back off.

The issue running a Pista with a fully open exhaust has to do with noise. I don't know about down under, but here the noise regulations make it impossible to run open when they measure. Great on the roads and all, but useless on most Euro tracks. Same goes for all the fancy loud exhausts. Can't be used on track.

 

Nice!

Can you post details about where they installed the controller?

 

There is one track I drive regularly which has noise restrictions and Pista and GT2 are allowed even though borderline. Pista cannot run with valves forced closed by a controller. This was made very clear by the head tech involved who was in consultation with his Italian counterparts on certain matters. The controller is also not to be used during track or performance driving and most certainly not with valves pegged closed or the engine will go into limp. Steves controller only has the two settings - an open and stock setting for Pista controller because of this situation. The 488 had the three settings.

Unfortunately not. I was not on site during the install. You would need to contact Steve at Forza for these details - I think he supplies all the details with the kit....pics etc.

The tech took photos of everything along his way for Steve and I do know the original position for controller had to be changed along with the positions of other parts to optimize the final locations. Where things were first thought to have gone didn't go to plan and certain changes and modifications had to take place.

This is true and also why you are better off leaving the stock ecu setting for track and high performance type driving so the ECU has full control over everything to preserve the optimum settings. It was made very clear don't drive it flat out with the controller holding the valves open as it will affect everything. But of course others who's techs seem to know more than this guy can do what they like. Maybe they have a different line into Italy.

 

I've got a Capristo controller on my Pista. Works well.

 

Ok this confused me...the valves are open driving “flat out” in stock configuration.

If you have the controller and drive around with valves open all the time there is no difference in performance or sound above the rpm where the stock system opens them anyway....correct?

The only real difference with the controller is you are able to drive around in Race mode for example under 2800rpm with valves open. What am I missing, not understanding here?

Thanks!

 

Keep in mind the throttle is never in the one position and the engine is never always above 2800rpms. Also keep in mind if the engine is above 2800 rpms and you lift off throttle the valves will close to keep pressure on tap for the next throttle application. If the valves are open all the time that environment is interrupted/removed. When on the go the engine rpms are working in a very wide range. Take for example you are coming into a hairpin under brake off hard throttle. The ECU senses that and closes the valves upon lift off and makes its various adjustments and compensations taking into consideration it thinks the valves are closing preloading the pressure in preparation for the next throttle input, however in reality the valves are not closing at all and there is no pre load because a controller is holding them open so the manifold pressure cannot be maintained to what the ECU expected it to be so to give full power on the next application. The ECU doesn't know that but the pressure sensor in the manifolds says something is not quite right and the ECU then tries to compensate for that and, may not be able to do so adequately. Then the throttle is then reapplied on corner exit and again the ECU is stumbled because normally there is a controlled balance between the valves and the manifold pressure and that balance being interrupted calls upon the ECU to make compensations for that again (fuel, timing etc).
This repeated interruption and compensating has a knock on effect to some degree obviously in what is reportedly a very highly a finely tuned engine.

If the Ferrari engineers advise avoid using the controller in any high performance situations then i'm sure they have good reasons to say that. But again if others feel there is no need to worry as they know better then please do not worry on my account. It's just that if anything does go pear shaped the ECU will be able to provide the data back to the warranty dept to make the determinations on what were the most likely causes and boom there goes your warranty. I was also explained this. But for some this may not matter at all, so they can continue on as they choose which I'm sure they will do with far greater knowledge than the engineers who set this engine up to perform the way it does. I am just the messenger so I expect to be shot. It was explained the Ferrari turbo engine is set up much differently to provide the linear power than other turbo engines and the valves are not just there to control the noise - they are part of the whole engine performance package. Sorry for such a long winded attempt to explain - maybe it is just easier if I pm you the phone number of the head tech here and if he has the time he will gladly go through it with you.

 

Mdrums truth be known is they don't like the controller period, they really don't, as they feel it will interfere with all of their ECU settings which they spent countless hours on just to get the engine to do what it does reliably. I was told this. But to help me out with my sound issue they said if i insist upon interfering with what they provided then just don't do it when everything is under full loads and under track conditions because that's just asking for trouble. They felt I would need to remain judicious with the controller mainly at low speeds and low engine and throttle loads. They kept reinforcing the Pista engine is a very finely tuned instrument best left as it is. Hope that helps explain the position from their angle. I think the controller is very useful in providing a more sporty feel to the car when in a non performance driving state and it makes enough of a difference to make the exercise worthwhile. But considering the fuss they put up I'm genuinely inclined to believe there may be something in it worthy to sit up and pay attention. That said who knows. You may get lucky and nothing happens at all under your period of ownership. Its one of those things where you have to make your own call and roll with whatever comes.

 

Actually all I want to do is just unplug the valves so they are open all the time. Take hose off valve, put a plug in the end of hose and zip tie it up.

Not so sure about all the theory thoughts on the valves...the Challenge cars do not use valves. Other marquee brands use valves and lots of dyno comparison done with no change in power.

It’s all interesting though

 

Ferrari tech who did this on my car said he does on quite a few and no issues. I have done this mod or went to valveless exhausts on all my cars and never had an issue or power loss as I dyno them all. Warmed up here nicely the last couple days and have driven the car pretty hard and ran great. Some techs are anti modding so take what they say with a grain of salt. My car is a 488 so can only speak about that. Also I never plan on tracking car so will never be driving it flat out. The change it makes on daily driving is great

 

Scott61, yep I never noticed any power issues or any issues on any of my past cars when I disabled the valves.

Thanks for the reply!