488 Pista / 6,000 units being produced?...?

Yeah, to me it looks like the Jaguar F type, especially from the back. Here they are side by side; hard to know which is which.

Ray

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Easy - the Jag is on the left

 

And the poor sounding car on the right!

Back on topic...more of these lame V8's are coming, and I bet TTV6 as well. I dont care how good looking they are, sound terrible and now not even exclusive. Aventadors looking a lot better suddenly.

 

There are plenty examples of great companies which were run into the ground by poor management. Look at Sears; look at any other number of examples. Take a company like Marlin Firearms. They made beautiful lever action rifles for years and then the morons at Remington came in and made a series of terrible decisions that resulted in quality going off a cliff. Even to this day, they are trying to recover their image and reputation.

Ferrari certainly is not immune to following this same sort of path.

Turning out cars which no longer produce the Ferrari music is not a step in the right direction if you ask me. Also, making decisions that are designed to appease investors (e.g. placing expansion ahead of exclusivity) as opposed to staying laser focused on quality and what customers want usually in an exotic car doesn't usually end real well in my experience. You can only trade on your past reputation for so long. As they say on Wall Street, "you're only as good as your last trade".

Ferrari is not immune to this. They are only as good as their last car and their last few cars have really not been all that good if you ask me.

Ray

 

There are a lot of Pistas for sale. A lot. Most are MSRP plus a little. Here is a fun example:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2019-Ferrari-488/174201254349?hash=item288f3431cd:g:Y-0AAOSw~OFeVCUk

 

They delivered 10,131 cars in 2019 of which 64% were sports and special series. That are 6,484 cars. Probably there are not that many 488's and F8's delivered in 2019 and it is mainly covering the delivery of the 812's and 488 Pista's.
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pistas seem to be getting TDF'd (horrible rainbow brite specs)

 

That's a beautiful car.

It's funny that "other options" were nearly $150,000 dollars. My first Ferrari was a used 355 and the entire car cost me $117,500



Ray

 

You know what Pistas and diplomas from University of phoenix online have in common? People believe the sales pitch when someone says you'll make a lot more money by getting one.

I think everyone out there trying to flip their never driven, highly optioned Pista's for a profit are about to be in for a rude awakening.

This reminds me a lot my ex-girlfriend's family. One day my "at-the-time-girlfriend" asked me if I could take a look at the loan documents her mom and step dad were about to sign off on for some crazy house 50 miles away from any real town, which had been built in what used to be a lettuce field. Sure, why not; so I look over the paper work.. how bad could it be? Whoa! WTF? The step Dad is a used car salesmen and the Mom is a data entry clerk making ~$12/hour and they are about to buy a home using a negative amortization loan for $550k+ on a house that in the real world should really be worth around $195K

I tell her to tell her Mom, "Absolutely do not do it.. location, location, location".

Nope, they won't listen and instead none of them think I know what I'm talking about. I try to explain how a negative am loan works and all I get are a lot of puzzled looks and comments like "you don't understand in 30 years the house will be paid off"

So the "model" home in the complex had every single option - so prospective buyers could see what was possible - and I think I remember that with every option it would have cost close to $750K. The home my ex-girlfriend's parents closed on cost them right around $550,000 as I recall. They didn't seem bothered about PMI or having to get yet another loan for the almost-nonexistent downpayment. I think everyone just thought they were going to grow a lawn in the back yard, fix up the porch and then flip their homes in a few years for over $800k

Just one problem... the real estate and credit markets collapsed.

The developers clearly saw it coming. The first warning sign was when they suddenly packed their bags and sold the super deluxe model home for around $350K and blew town. Oh man, you should have heard the outrage from everyone around that development: how could the developer get away with selling a fully decked out model home for well below what everyone else had just paid for their barely upgraded models? I chimed in that there was no law against selling property at what the market will bare and you'd have thought everyone was going to drag me out to the local community playground and lynch me. After they decided not to hang me from the neck until dead, I recall there was talk of a perhaps hiring an attorney and starting a class action lawsuit (LOL) - everyone was in a big huff about it, that's for sure. In the end, everyone just shrugged it off and went back to having BBQ's and watching TV.

Roll the movie forward 6 to 9 more months and of course their house went into foreclosure. I checked a while later and I believe the bank sold it for around $205K.

This was all back in 2009, of course, but it illustrates how speculative markets tend to function when people believe that something is in very high demand when really it is not.

If Ferrari does indeed open the flood gates on 488 Pistas - as well as every other one of the 15 models they are planning to introduce - then I don't think too many people will be paying nearly $600K for a 488 Pista with over $100K of extra paint and carbon fiber when all they really have to do is spec out whatever the latest, greatest new model that catches their fancy is.

I could be wrong, but supply and demand has taken down plenty of over-inflated markets - everything from Beanie babies to F40's - over the years. I don't see how this time around is going to be anything different. When supply goes up, prices soften; that's the long and the short of it and Ferrari just announced what their intentions with production here are going to be over the coming 2 years.

Ray

 

It's always about the balance between the money made now vs long term.

 

Let me chime in my friend tells me the other day i just ordered a pista....for msrp
i guess they are not selling to good.
i don’t think they will be valuable.....just a other turbo car.
nothing special.

 

In North America all Ferrari dealers sell new inventory for MSRP, some models get discounted, but dealers aren’t allowed to sell for over MSRP unless the vehicle is used.


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yes correct msrp...but he never owned a ferrari.
usually ferrari dealers don’t sell to new owners.
u have to buy used ferrari and then order a new one.
so iam saying this because there running out of old customers.
my .02 cents

 

Not true. My Pista was the first new Ferrari I ordered. You can look at this Cynically or the fact that Ferrari is trying to expand their user base. I can tell you many friends wanted a Pista, they were unable to get an allocation.

 

Well seems quite impossible... we collected in the past many many info saying total prod number of pista is around 2500/2800 and pista spider 700/800 . Grand total around 3600 .
6000 is a joke ....

 

As a Pista owner, I hope Ferrari builds as many as there are buyers for.

Why? Because it's a fabulous car.

This way we can stop all the talking about production numbers, resale, allocations, etc. and then focus on the joys of ownership and the driving experience.

 

No, you've forgotten Portofinos.

 

I think his point was about one still can get an allocation without bending over or wearing knee pads. That's how I think he implied.

I personally love the way Pista looks, but I am more tempted to buy a 458 SA.

 

If you had actually seen the lines, you'd know that's incorrect.
If you have been at the factory, please tell me on what line each car is made. I'm all ears.

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All ears, maybe thats the issue

I attended the F1 car launch earlier in Feb, with F8 driving at Fiorano, plus some very special access to the factory.

I was also there last Monday, as one of the last visitors through the gates, before Corona lock down.

If you'd actually been there this recently, you'd know such a bold reply puts you out on a limb

 

It is time to accept the fact that Ferrari is clearly enroute to becoming an exotic car manufacturer like Mclaren, Lamborghini, Porsche, Bentley etc. They are cars to drive and enjoy all the while accepting the fact that they are depreciating assets and with the exception of special edition models,will be available to anyone who wishes to make a purchase.

 

i can see 4k or 4500 pistas. 6k wld be surprising.

 

No, not forgotten as Portofino's belong to the GT range (Lusso, Portofino, Roma) of which they sold 3,445 cars (34% of the total sales of 10,131 cars).

 

You're quite right. My apologies.

I have the model split for the UK for the first 9 months of 2019 (full year won't be available until the end of this month), rounded to nearest whole percent of total UK deliveries for the period:
812: 26%
Portofino: 26%
488 GTB: 5%
488 Spider: 10%
488 Pista: 24%
GTC4Lusso: 9%

 

This thread reminds me of how every Porsche GT3 owners were pissed with AP decided that everyone who wanted a GT3 would have a GT3 and how he dislike market mark up. That was exactly the moment I sold my .2 GT3 and said bye bye to Porsche.

Exclusivity to toys does mean a lot.