458 and 488 price parity... | Page 7 | FerrariChat

458 and 488 price parity...

Discussion in '458 Italia/488/F8' started by dann0, Oct 25, 2019.

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  1. Jason B

    Jason B Formula Junior

    Apr 7, 2006
    397
    Hbg, PA
  2. CodeRed

    CodeRed Formula Junior

    Nov 8, 2003
    368
    LALA LAND
    Article mentions both...458 or 456?
     
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  3. LVP488

    LVP488 F1 Rookie

    Jan 21, 2017
    4,839
    France
    Most probably a typo...
    The 458 is still a recent car, so it's logical that its value continues to decrease for a while. Typically it will then stabilize and stay at some level for some time, then it will go up again when it will be older and rarer.
    From an investment perspective, an older car is probably a safer bet (specially now that apparently the market has been - at least partially - corrected from its speculative excess).
     
  4. teak360

    teak360 F1 World Champ

    Nov 3, 2003
    10,065
    Boulder, CO
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    Scott
    #154 teak360, Feb 9, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2020
    I don't need to remember, as that's what I said, "Torque without rpm gets you nothing. Rpm without torque gets you nothing."

    Here's what you are not understanding, and it is very basic: Torque is absolutely work. Torque is a force that is confined (pinned) at some location (pivot). It can create motion, but does not require motion. It is a force and force only, not work.

    That's what a used car salesman says.

    When a car accelerates you feel the force of the seat pushing you forward. Simply a pure translation (there is no rotation sensed) which means your body accelerates along a straight line. That is a result of power being generated. If you had a small rocket on the back of the car that made the car accelerate at the same rate as the IC engine, it would feel exactly the same with no torque at all being generated anywhere, just power (horsepower) affecting a pure translation.

    People look at torque and hp on dyno charts and get confused. They even say things like, "You feel the torque down low and the hp up high" and other nonsense. What makes your car accelerate is power and nothing else, down at low rpm, up at high rpm, doesn't matter. Tq is merely a component of what matters...power. More tq at low rpm makes more power, less tq but with much more rpm makes more power. At 18,000 rpm the old-school F1 engines were making 800 hp, but barely 200 ft lbs of torque max at lower rpm. Do you think that engine would give you a wild ride in a 458? Would you get out of that car and say, "I felt the torque!".

    Power is king.

    Seriously though, I doubt most on this thread give a damn about this. I won't post about it anymore unless someone asks a question.

    In the long run the 458 will probably be the more desirable car, and a lot of that desire will be because of the lack of turbos, along with it just being a great car. From what I have read, I think even now I would prefer the 458. Along those lines, I would rather have a McLaren 675LT, with its turbos, than either the 458 or 488.



    Sent from my SM-G930F using FerrariChat.com mobile app[/QUOTE]
     
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  5. PTG1

    PTG1 Formula Junior

    Oct 7, 2017
    783
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    Pete
    If you follow the prices online you can see call cars have slipped in thr last 3 or 4 months but 458s have actually held up better when compared to other marques offerings, I know people talk of big 488 depreciation but compared to others they are not doing badly either
    Sent from my CLT-L09 using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
  6. teak360

    teak360 F1 World Champ

    Nov 3, 2003
    10,065
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    Scott
    This is not the stupidest mistake I've made posting on FChat, but it's certainly in the top 100...

    Because: Torque in absolutely NOT work.
     
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  7. pninja005

    pninja005 Formula Junior

    Nov 10, 2010
    469
    Europe
    I understand people's feeling...

    I'm looking at low mileage 458 and for about 10k more I can get a low mileage 488. Yet after reading all comments here I think I'll stick with the 458 even though it's 4 years older...
     
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  8. Jason B

    Jason B Formula Junior

    Apr 7, 2006
    397
    Hbg, PA
    Not sure, but I've heard many are going for F8, so that means the market will probably be flooded I bet on 458's coming up, which will lead to even better prices.
     
  9. PTG1

    PTG1 Formula Junior

    Oct 7, 2017
    783
    UK
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    Pete
    I'm keeping my 458 and will buy f8 coupe then f spider to keep long term, I would never sell the 458 it just gives me such a great feeling when driving
    Sent from my CLT-L09 using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
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  10. Texas2step

    Texas2step Formula Junior
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    Mar 25, 2018
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    Bola olusola
    You need to test drive both and see which one you like better. Don’t go by other people’s comment. It is your money!!
     
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  11. IloveGT

    IloveGT Formula 3
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    Oct 17, 2015
    2,419
    Lol. It's okay. It's all about the axis and the angle, as torque is a vector and work is a scalar.
     
  12. teak360

    teak360 F1 World Champ

    Nov 3, 2003
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    It reminds of a post on FChat where I said I didn't like the term,"I could care less". I meant to say "couldn't" and I have corrected my kids for saying "could" for years (actually decades) and I typed it wrong. Of course someone pointed it out, and damn...that's annoying. Proof-reading is best done in reverse!
     
  13. mustangtornado

    Dec 19, 2014
    24
    Dallas, TX
    Full Name:
    Jay
    I test drove both back to back a couple weeks ago. Was pretty certain going in, after reading sentiment on here, that the 458 was for me. Nope, I vastly preferred the 488. So much of this is personal preference, both are great cars, period.
     
  14. up4speed

    up4speed F1 Rookie
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    Feb 16, 2012
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    Yes, definitely a very personal choice. I was similar, but opposite of you. I really wanted to like the 488 since it's a "better" car, and much faster, and in my eyes (back then) better looking. But unfortunately, even though it was fast as h#ll, I got REALLY annoyed at the way it revved so fast, and the rev limiter kept cutting in way before I got the thrill of the sound or feel. It was, dare I say, TOO fast for street use. It accelerates like a beast before you sense a thrill. There was no build up or climax of engine sound, it was like premature ejaculation, lol. Therefore, it didn't stir my soul. It didn't excite me as much. I preferred the more quirky handling/feel (a little less planted), and the screaming engine to 9,000 RPM! Plus as a bonus, I was ecstatic that I could save about $60 at the time. The only hard part was that since the 458 was older, it was a chore finding one in the condition that I wanted (I'm EXTREMELY picky). The 488's were very easy to find in perfect condition. Both are great cars for different reasons. The buyers need to test drive and decide what parts of "great" they want.
     
  15. SE16

    SE16 Karting

    Apr 13, 2007
    107
    UAE and London
    I am in the same boat. Here in the UAE the 458 is 30pc cheaper than in the Europe and very scare as most were shipped out to Japan. However the 488 is the same price as EU but many more are available. Very weird dynamic

    So I can have a 2015 458 with 10k kms for Euro 125k or a 2016 488 with 10k kms for Euro 162k.

    I previously owned a 2013 458 with 22k kms and loved it but it had not been very kindly cared for (not badly but not perfectly) and so I sold it. I do like the 488 alot but when the 458 is so much cheaper and now rarer it seems like a no brainer given that i don't think any other foreign market will seek out 488s in the same way they did for high quality 458s. There just seem to be alot more 488s available.

    So am I doing the right thing? If they were at price parity then maybe not but with this werid arbitrage its seems like the right thing to do
     
  16. willcrook

    willcrook Formula 3

    Feb 3, 2009
    2,129
    UK
    all very true but we're at the point where on public roads it's just nuts. the 458 is scary still on a twisty road and I wouldn't want to go much quicker, that's good enough for me.

    488 had more accessible power but the 458 has never felt lacking to me.

    I'd probably go 720s if I wanted the a power hit
     
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  17. willcrook

    willcrook Formula 3

    Feb 3, 2009
    2,129
    UK
    I think so, the 458 will stand firm and the 488 will come down to meet it within a year or so.
     
  18. Golattus

    Golattus Karting
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    Dec 15, 2017
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    Whenever they drive the F8 they’ll feel opposite feelings, yeah, terrific car but.... there’s something that don’t really thrills me... although it is super super fast but.... why I feel isolated off the car??.. but, hey, it looks super sexy outside... wtf they did in the interior?? That’s what happened TO ME with F8

    Maybe I’m getting old, maybe I’m old actually.
     
  19. MANDALAY

    MANDALAY F1 World Champ
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    I don't understand your comment it revved so fast and the limiter kept cutting in ? Need to be faster on gear change ? Where are you going that fast on the road ?

    On public hwy's and being legal you would be hitting 9,000 only in first
     
  20. rockminster

    rockminster Formula Junior
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    Nov 20, 2003
    874
    Lake Tahoe
    The 488 only revs to 7500 and it spins up VERY quickly. If you like to paddle the shift the car, it’s very hard to stay off the rev limiter. For many of us, that attribute of the car is a fairly big negative.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  21. up4speed

    up4speed F1 Rookie
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    #171 up4speed, Feb 11, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2020
    I don’t know how to explain it much better. You would need to drive the 458 and 488 back to back to understand. The turbo gives the 488 so much torque down low that the tach shoots up so fast that you shift so fast (it feels like every 2 seconds, lol) that it breaks up due to the rev limiter before the engine starts to scream at all. It still sounds half asleep while the rev limiter kicks in! With the 458, even if you don’t go all the way to 9,000, it still sounds and feels amazing at 7,500 rpm because it screams and sounds like it’s working. You don’t need to look at the tach, it just has the perfect sound/scream and the natural shift points are evident and natural. I can usually Rev the car in 1st through 4th gear safely. It never fails to put a huge smile on my face. In the 488, if you start to drive a little aggressive, the darn thing is way too fast for public roads in a matter of seconds, so you miss the whole climax and experience. I hope I made it a little more clear, the best way for you to know what you like, is to test drive. There are plenty of people that prefer the chest crushing, quiet acceleration of the 488, as well as the more refined and isolated chassis.
     
  22. MANDALAY

    MANDALAY F1 World Champ
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    Ive been a N/A person all my life. I do know what your describing. With the 488 GTB I just with the gears and create the excitement. Interesting that by reports the F8 doesn't have a rev limiter ?
     
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  23. up4speed

    up4speed F1 Rookie
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    The F8 was much improved in that sense. Not only does it sound better exhaust-wise, but they added the "Hot Tube" or whatever it's called to pipe in sound to the cabin. But they also don't limit the RPM's in the lower gears, so it revs all the way to the 8,000 RPM redline in all the gears. In my opinion, it's WAY more exciting to drive than the 488.
    As I said prior, if something happened to my car, I think I would go F8 next, because even though I lose that 9,000 RPM scream that I love so much, in exchange, I get a much better looking car, a much stiffer chassis, a better interior, higher quality controls/buttons, and ridiculous speed. F8, in my opinion, is one of Ferrari's best. At this point, I still prefer my 458, but it's mostly due to the sound, and the price.
     
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  24. Golattus

    Golattus Karting
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    Dec 15, 2017
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    Better interior F8 compared to 458? IMO, I cannot disagree more.

    Have you popped into an F8??? It is so neutral.
     
  25. Rory breaker

    Rory breaker Formula Junior

    Apr 17, 2017
    269
    It’s just an evolved 458 interior, I can’t see how the F8 interior could *not* be viewed as better, it’s basically the same just updated, but obviously to each their own.
     

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