Will Ferrari make more 812s than F12s? | FerrariChat

Will Ferrari make more 812s than F12s?

Discussion in 'FF/Lusso' started by 96redLT4, Jan 5, 2020.

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  1. 96redLT4

    96redLT4 Formula Junior

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    As a newer car in production for only two years, I would think the 812 should be a rarer car. A quick check of Cars.com reveals the same number of used 812 and F12 cars within 500 miles of me (24 of each).Will there ultimately be more 812s to choose from? I am not counting the future 812 GTS models.
     
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  2. MDEL

    MDEL F1 Rookie
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    The only credible information I know that's available about the 812 Superfast and the F12 Berlinetta are the sales statistics for Europe compiled by Carsalesbase. On the table below you'll find the number of cars sold by each model during the first three years.
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  3. Caeruleus11

    Caeruleus11 F1 World Champ
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    The problem with this is they over supplied the EU markets due to GPF coming into effect in 2020- so that number in 2019 should be substantially lower if this were a normal time. Of course, maybe they would have sent those cars to other markets though....
     
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  4. Eilig

    Eilig F1 Rookie
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    Exactly.
     
  5. Wheels1

    Wheels1 F1 Rookie
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    The F12 will be sold for a few years longer that the 812 so there should be far fewer 812's.
    F12 2012- 2017 = 5 years
    812 2017/ 2018 [uk] - 2020 = 3 years / 2.5 years [UK]
    I think there was less than 100, 812's sold in the uk in 2018 including all the dealer demo cars.
     
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  6. MDEL

    MDEL F1 Rookie
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    Jerry I agree with your analysis about a flooding of the European market with 812s. I was looking today at Mobile.de in order to check how many 812s are listed for sale there and to my surprise there are 92 cars being 21 of them new. I also checked the F12 Berlinetta and there are 105 cars for sale being just 1 new.
    I don't pretend to be an analyst and therefore leave that task to the specialists but my modest impression is that the present number of 812s for sale seems too high taking into account the fact that the model only started being delivered at cruising speed in 2018.
     
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  7. Caeruleus11

    Caeruleus11 F1 World Champ
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    Mario, they really pushed cars into the EU due to the regulations changing. We will know in a few years what happened.
     
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  8. Wheels1

    Wheels1 F1 Rookie
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    I think the proportion on 812 that were delivered and for sale is very high.
    It’s not that they made so many, its more the cars were ordered when the market was at a high with lots of people thinking they were going to make a few quid on one and since them the world market has changed, so people are trying to get out of them before losing too much money. I hope that when these car get sold the market may pick up a little. After all they are a great car.

    I still think they are a fairly low volume model and as such prices will firm eventually but as you say only time will tell.
     
  9. dustman

    dustman F1 Veteran
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    Wholesale on these in USA is now ~$265k for ones with miles, obv higher for the 1k miles cars. Should flatten at $300k asking prices by midyear given how many are for sale.
     
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  10. Solid State

    Solid State F1 Veteran
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    Not that it matters but a steady decline to their bottom value like all modern standard production Ferraris. Dive angle primarily dependent on economy and release of new model. Always a premium for great spec, low miles and amazing condition examples.
     
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  11. MDEL

    MDEL F1 Rookie
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    Europe's final sales numbers for 2019 have been made available by Carsalesbase. Below is a table and a chart that compare the 812 SF and the F12 B sales during the first three years of commercialization. Europe's 812's SF sales during this initial 3 years period are 23,6% more than the ones registered for the F12 B.

    PS- According to the recent posts made by member Gianfranco341 one of is sources indicated that the 812 SF will be produced until 2022.


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  12. Bamsefar

    Bamsefar Formula Junior

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    Are "we" sure the (relative) high number of 812SF are only because of the reson mentioned (GPF) - I have a strange feeling some of the close to new 812SF for sale is because of the 812GTS that seemed to have a pre-qualifying need to own a factory new 812SF? I noticed that there are a few 812SF here in "small" Sweden that I normally would not find for sale this "new" so to speak, and well the 812GTS is the first V12 spider for some time....
     
  13. MDEL

    MDEL F1 Rookie
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    That's what Italian member Gianfranco341 posted in another thread about existing so many 812's SF for sale. " The reason why there are so many is double : first There are many owners who bought 812sf just for having an allocation for limited series as Pista and they feel free now to sell 812 after allocation . Second , there are so many trying to sell 812 SF because they had an allocation for a 812 GTS . Same thing is happening with 488 , so many on the market because they have an allocation for a F8 Tributo or Spyder"
     
  14. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Veteran

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    How many F12 Berlinettas were actually produced in 15, 16 and 17? '12 to '14 only accounts for half the total production cycle.
     
  15. [gTr]

    [gTr] Formula 3

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    Maybe its not all about making a quick buck but the fact that there is a lot more new product coming down the pipe (vs the F12) in the next year including the 812GTS, which will be a direct replacement of the 812 for many. I can even imagine people trading in the 812 for the SF90S.
     
  16. italiafan

    italiafan F1 World Champ
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    I'm always amazed by these sorts of threads on FChat. I must be an outlier.
    I buy a car I like, I drive it, when (or IF) something comes along that I like better I consider a trade.
    Rinse, repeat.
    This strategy needs to comply with budgetary constraints.
    Who cares how many of each are made?
    Both are amazing Ferrari V12s....and yes, V12s are different and everyone of them is special. I wouldn't dream of trading an 812 for an SF90-thingamajig.
     
  17. MDEL

    MDEL F1 Rookie
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    The total number of new F12 Berlinettas sold in Europe between 2012 and 2019 was 2112 units as follows:
    2019 - 5
    2018 - 39
    2017 - 261
    2016 - 387
    2015 - 296
    2014 - 418
    2013 - 624
    2012 - 82


    These new Car sales statistics are from the following countries: Austria, Belgium, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Great Britain, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Ireland, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland. Sources: Manufacturers, ANDC, JATO Dynamics.
     
  18. Eilig

    Eilig F1 Rookie
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    How many of those were Tdf's?
     
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  19. MDEL

    MDEL F1 Rookie
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    These numbers are for the F12 Berlinetta. The TDF Europe sales numbers aren't available.
     
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  20. Eilig

    Eilig F1 Rookie
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    EU accounts for roughly 46%, so total F12s produced = ~4600?
     
  21. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Veteran

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    Interesting question J

    Not sure the TdF falls within the cars on that list. I was told that roughly 2/3rds of the TdFs were sold in Europe. That's roughly 500 cars in 2016 alone. Even if Europe only represents half the TdF sale, that's still 400 cars. If the numbers on that list is correct, it leaves little to no room for Berlinetta sales in '15/16. I recall a number of around 5000 F12B world wide, floating around at some point not including the TdF. If Europe accounts for 2122, I'd say it's about right. Between Asia, Oceania and the Americas, I would think that's not far off.

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  22. MDEL

    MDEL F1 Rookie
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    My number is around 5000 ………..
     
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  23. Dubaicity

    Dubaicity Karting

    Nov 21, 2013
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    What if guys?
    What if they sold more F12s?
    What if they will sell more 812SF at the end?

    If I have a look at the new generation most sports cars will be worth nothing here in Europe in a decade or so...




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  24. KarlA69

    KarlA69 Formula Junior

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    You make a good point - UK just announced no more new cars sales of anything but pure electric cars from 2035. Clearly, the mood is turning against petrol and diesel...quickly. Sobering thought for anyone (like me) about to spend $400k+ on a petrol car (812 GTS in my case). Their future value will be determined by how restrictive countries get on their use. If you merely can't buy a car like that anymore new then our F cars could actually be worth more... but if governments clamp down on using them (via tax or actual driving bans/restrictions) they could lose a lot of value very quickly. I don't care... I'm still going to buy mine and enjoy it while I can!
     
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  25. wrs

    wrs F1 World Champ
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    Right in 20 years they won't let you. In my case I will be too old to enjoy it, if I am still around.
     

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