355 Top Replacement (and power top repair) | Page 3 | FerrariChat

355 Top Replacement (and power top repair)

Discussion in '348/355' started by Boaf 32, Jan 1, 2020.

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  1. Boaf 32

    Boaf 32 Formula Junior

    Aug 23, 2016
    390
    US
    All,

    Updates.

    Got the back half of the top on! Yeehaa. Wife helped with the passenger side roof wires. What a pain to do. Not a lot of space or play in the cable attachments. Patience!!! L'audace, l'audace, toujours l'audace (Frederick the Great)

    Left to do
    • Glue the front
    • glue the support bars
    • Handle install for lock.
    I have some alignment adjustments that are needed with the pins (now that the hydraulics are working). Hope that goes well. Will do that once the gluing is complete.

    Some photos are attached. Pictures 3 and 4 are the metal rails where the back window bar tucks under. The last is the window bar that I originally glued upside down :(.

    Boaf

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  2. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    Feb 20, 2015
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    Is the new canvas black? It's hard to tell in the pic. I currently have an Azzurro California 355 with a blue top which looks almost black. I've been thinking about installing a black canvas, but I'm worried it will make the paintwork washed out.

    Were the fabric loops for the support bars loose on the old roof? Do you glue the fabric to the bars or to itself (for a bit of free play)?
     
  3. Boaf 32

    Boaf 32 Formula Junior

    Aug 23, 2016
    390
    US
    Canvas is Black. I had blue but the original was Black.

    Yes, will glue the new fabric to the support bar. The old one was also glued.

    Boaf
     
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  4. 97 Spider

    97 Spider Formula 3
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    Dec 15, 2012
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    If you look at my thread that he linked in the first post you can see all the pieces he is referring to wrapping. https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/f355-spider-top-replacement-with-pictures.441033/
     
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  5. Boaf 32

    Boaf 32 Formula Junior

    Aug 23, 2016
    390
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  6. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    Thanks, Brian. I saw your excellent message thread some time ago (and direct FChatters to it). I still think I will have to see the pieces in my hand to understand the description and what I'm looking at in the photos, but I'm sure if I take enough photos of the disassembly and look at yours, I should be ok.

    Did you use the Sonneland or Sonnendeck/Twillfast fabric? I think Boaf and I bought the cheaper one.

    https://www.convertibletopguys.com/convertible/1057/Ferrari-355-Spider-1995-99
     
  7. Boaf 32

    Boaf 32 Formula Junior

    Aug 23, 2016
    390
    US
    I Did get the flexible fabric but not from this site.
     
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  8. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    Running through the checklist of materials required:

    Disassembly:
    (painters) Masking tape and cardboard
    Pin punch and hammer for roof handle
    Awl (for punching holes in fabric)
    Additional tools for roof disassembly where required (metric socket set/spanners/screwdrivers)
    Plastic pry bars
    3M adhesive remover
    Plastic scrapers
    Rags
    Boxcutter knife

    Assembly:
    New elastic straps as required.
    Clothespegs or binder clips
    Brush on fabric adhesive (x 2). 3M Ultrapro Trim & Emblem Adhesive (?)
    Brushes?
    New Tenax fasteners (as required or always required?)
    Block of wood and hammer for Tenax fasteners
    Double sided fabric tape (Watson's tip)
    Lockwire for dragging cable through fabric.
    Heat gun or sunshine.
    Towels and boiling water.

    I'm having problems finding 3M Ultrapro Trim & Emblem adhesive recommended in Brian's message thread. Either Amazon tells me its unavailable or eBay replaces it with "Plastic & Emblem adhesive" in small tubes. Is this the same stuff?

    https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/3M-Plastic-Emblem-and-Trim-Adhesive-03601-1-oz/254309799181?epid=1200886464&hash=item3b360b950d:g:zKUAAOSwtEVdOeVk
     
  9. 97 Spider

    97 Spider Formula 3
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    The top I bought was just described as OEM style German HAARTS fabric, it didn’t say Twillfast or anything so I don’t know on mine. It was exactly like the OEM top I removed.
    The 3M Pro adhesive I got was a can with a brush on the lid, I ordered it through NAPA. Seriously good adhesive and decent to work with.
     
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  10. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    HAARTZ (USA) construct the tops using German-made Sonnenland or US-made Sonnendeck (Twillfast) material. The original is the slightly heavier Sonnenland. The inside fabric had the same pattern. Both appear to look like OEM.

    CONVERTIBLE TOP FABRICS
    Almost all manufacturers use Haartz fabrics. They may specify "heaviest weight" or "original replacement" in ways that seem reassuring. But they do not really tell the whole story. Please bear in mind that two things dominate, by far, the quality issue: (a) the manufacturing quality control in the factory that makes the top and (b) the care and thoroughness of the installation. There is a trade-off in weight: heavier is better for resisting tear through, but lighter is better for flexibility and abrasion from within that may arise from movement. Almost all our tops are a flexible medium density (36 oz.) fabric. Heavier is not better in most cases. Where it is, because of the top design, we will say so and the top will be made of the heavier vinyl.

    • Sonnenland® (View) is a German-made 3-ply topping made up of an acrylic twill-weave facing, a rubber inner-layer, and a polyester "dobby backing." The dobby backing is a knit-like weave original to many high-end foreign cars. Customers who value originality over cost often pay top dollar for Sonnenland, just to have that authentic "dobby backing," seen only when you look up at the roof of your convertible top from inside your car. Sonnenland canvas is a top-of-the-line material original to various Audi, BMW, and Jaguar convertibles, among others. Sonnenland Canvas can vary in terms of surface weave and/or weight for acoustic performance, but all Sonnenland Canvas promises elegance and long-lasting durability.
    • Twillfast® (View), also called Sonnendeck Canvas, is an American-made canvas - a cost-effective substitute for Sonnenland. Twillfast is usually a 3-ply topping (though some versions are 5-ply) with Polyester and/or Polyester/cotton backings. This material, original to certain Camaro, BMW, Mustang, and VW Beetle convertibles, among others, varies in terms of surface weave and/or weight for acoustic performance. Twillfast Canvas is identical to Sonnenland Canvas - elegant and durable - only it's less expensive. This is a top-notch convertible top material, one we often recommend to savvy customers who like a good buy and a quality product.
    • Stayfast Canvas (View) is an elegant, durable canvas original to cars like the Mazda Miata and the Nissan 370Z. Stayfast is commonly used in replacement convertible tops. Stayfast canvas has an acrylic square weave facing, a rubber inner-layer, and a cotton backing. As with other canvases, the rubber core gives the fabric long-lasting durability. Stayfast canvas is a sleek, beautiful canvas, usually less expensive than Twillfast, but it does not have the dobby backing offered in Sonnenland and Twillfast (Sonnendeck). Stayfast is a popular upgrade to vinyl convertible tops, and as with any canvas, is richer looking and has a higher wear rating than convertible tops made of vinyl.
    I think it would be hard to make a decision based on this statement:

    There is a trade-off in weight: heavier is better for resisting tear through, but lighter is better for flexibility and abrasion from within that may arise from movement.

    Another site says, "Twillfast Canvas is identical to Sonnenland Canvas – elegant and durable – only it’s less expensive. This is a top-notch convertible top material, one we often recommend to savvy customers who like a good buy and a quality product."

    I bought a replacement top a few years ago at a good price, so I assumed it was the cheaper version. It does have the identical "dobby weave". It feels heavy, too, but I have nothing to compare it to (until I remove the old canvas). I would have no hesitation fitting this based on quality.

    I went to the NAPA website and they don't seem to offer it anymore (unless my location is filtering out this product). There may be postage restrictions to Australia due to its volatility.
     
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  11. Boaf 32

    Boaf 32 Formula Junior

    Aug 23, 2016
    390
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    @97 Spider, Did you glue the fabric to the Rails that run along the rear deck lid? The Previous owner did (it was not the original top) and wondering if that should be glued.

    Thanks,

    Boaf
     
  12. johnk...

    johnk... F1 World Champ
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    I ordered samples of Sonmenland and Twillfast from Top on Line a couple of years ago. Frankly, I could not tell the difference. Both had the same appearance inside and out. Both seemed about the same weight. The only difference was one appeared a little blacker than the other but that could have been the difference in dye lots. Price difference is insignificant. My top is in good shape but shows wear from rub marks that occur when the top is down. I considered replacing it but then I would loose the OEM rear window with Ferrari markings. So I just put some self adhesive felt pads over the wear areas when I put the top down. Basically all summer, as the only time top is up is during winter storage and if caught out in a shower.
     
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  13. 97 Spider

    97 Spider Formula 3
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    NO, no glue there. The pieces on the top just slip into the channels and hold tight o glue needed.
     
  14. Boaf 32

    Boaf 32 Formula Junior

    Aug 23, 2016
    390
    US
    Thanks. The PO did glue it but the Splines do seem to hold tight (like the Jeep Wrangler splines and channels). Getting close to the finale'.

    Boaf
     
  15. Boaf 32

    Boaf 32 Formula Junior

    Aug 23, 2016
    390
    US
    Hello all,

    Coming down to the home stretch. Some more photos.

    One issue I do have, when I put the top down, the weather stripping gets stuck on the door (where the black cut outs are). This pulls the weather stripping out.
    I will try some adjustments once the top is all glued up. Maybe the problem goes away. If not, open the top with the doors open and the use the emergency switch to open. :)

    1. Last two photos are the front. Glued this first.
    2. First two photos are the center bars. Wrapped the long flap first and will do the short one to finish. Glued these bars last.

    Boaf


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  16. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    The store clerk must have given you a strange look when you bought 10 packets of clothes pegs :p Was that for extra hold, or even coverage?

    When the canvas is warm and wet, it stretches. Did you make any compensation for this?

    What function does that large T shaped piece of cloth have at the front of the roof? It looks too big to tuck away.
     
  17. Boaf 32

    Boaf 32 Formula Junior

    Aug 23, 2016
    390
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    No Compensation, just made it snug, in a garage 60 degrees. That T shape wraps around the front and under the top.
     
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  18. Boaf 32

    Boaf 32 Formula Junior

    Aug 23, 2016
    390
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    Hello all,

    Comes to an end. Finished the top and Hydraulics. Hydraulics (frame) needs some adjusting. This was a challenging project and was definitely worried that is would come out really poorly. It's not perfect, but it's better than having holes and rips any day.

    Thanks to everyone who helped with suggestions, and guidance. Really enjoyed this and it was satisfying to do myself. You can also do it if you have patience and a garage. The biggest annoyance was the Previous Owner who had the top installed glued EVERYTHING.

    Photo's attached.

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  19. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    Bravo!

    You have given me confidence to attempt to replace my canvas... I have a garage of sorts... just need to find some glue.
     
  20. Boaf 32

    Boaf 32 Formula Junior

    Aug 23, 2016
    390
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    I used 3M 4799 Industrial Glue. It is flexible and forgiving if you need to remove it within 24 hours.
    Boaf
     
  21. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    Thanks!
    Looks like 4799 is available in Australia. Is it black in colour?

    https://www.ebay.com.au/p/1500794795?iid=233302948308&chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=705-139619-5960-0&mkcid=2&itemid=233302948308&targetid=832780663387&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=9071657&poi=&campaignid=7787616402&mkgroupid=82303623032&rlsatarget=pla-832780663387&abcId=578876&merchantid=119380583&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIu9KFt7C75wIVkA4rCh2MBwYzEAkYBCABEgIoaPD_BwE

    I see it's called "Scotch-Weld". I did find this in aerosol form earlier, but I got the impression it was for rubber. Reading the full spec sheet, however, it's also for canvas.

    Now to figure out what holds better and is more gentle on canvas (wooden clothespegs or binder clips)

    Cheers
     
  22. Boaf 32

    Boaf 32 Formula Junior

    Aug 23, 2016
    390
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    It is black. My suggestion is not to use aerosol. A tube provides more control. Honestly, it looked silly with the clothespins but it worked well. The only part that would need a larger clamp is the front of the frame. Suggest get a bendable piece of plastic or wood. Shape it to the front frame and clamp that down with larger clamps. This will ensure no movement or air bubbles.

    Good luck.

    Boaf
     
  23. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    Ah... Thanks for the tips (and the luck). I guessed your glue was black and ordered a can yesterday. I wasn't sure if a tube or two would be enough.

    Spoke too soon... It's from the USA. U$50 in postage costs and import duties. Total cost in Aussie dollars A$160. C'est la vie.

    I'll probably still have lots of questions to ask :D
     
  24. Boaf 32

    Boaf 32 Formula Junior

    Aug 23, 2016
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    One tube was well enough for me.
     
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  25. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    Unbelieveable.... For some reason, they won't even send me a small tube... It's deemed "restricted". I bought all the other stuff I needed, but now they won't sell me the glue.

    Are there any workarounds?
     

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