E-Z Timing Belt Swap? | Page 3 | FerrariChat

E-Z Timing Belt Swap?

Discussion in '348/355' started by pnicholasen, Jan 14, 2020.

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  1. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
    Consultant

    Nov 29, 2001
    12,661
    San Carlos, CA
    Full Name:
    Mitchell Le
    In the grand scheme of things, owning any Ferrari is not going to be cheap and owners know that. They signed up for it when they bought into the marque. It is one reason why Ferrari is exclusive. Don't kid yourself that a 360 is less expensive to maintain. There is a 360 owner on here who had to rebuild his engine because it inhaled some broken bits from the precat in the header. Want to know how much that is going to cost?
     
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  2. m.stojanovic

    m.stojanovic F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 22, 2011
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    Miroljub Stojanovic
    He probably did it like this:
     
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  3. pnicholasen

    pnicholasen Formula 3

    Jan 14, 2011
    1,357
    South of Philly
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    Paul Nicholasen
    INTMD8 : of course you are correct, that's why I'm not cutting up my car. I was just contemplating an ideal world

    yelcab: yes, it's part of the price we pay for the " exclusivity " and we all accepted that for super high performance we had to go that extra mile...and then the NSX arrived and showed there might be an alternative.

    m.stojanovic: That's crazy!! Wouldn't want to see the 200 attempts that failed until he perfected the proceedure. There were probably several mangled tools, a mangled engine or 2 and a few trips to the ER to get to this point.

    Sent from my VS990 using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
  4. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    33,736
    Austin TX
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    Brian Crall
    Without reading the entire thread sorry if this has come up but as someone who has been in the Ferrari industry a long time you will render your Ferrari sale proof for several reasons.
    One the market rewards unmodified cars.
    Two it is a very invasive modification done without benifit of real live engineering and crash testing.
    Three for the above reasons alone no reputable car business will ever be interested in selling your car for reasons of liability.
    Four it will scream out at potential future buyers "This owner was too cheap to service his car correctly".

    Your car, your money, do what you want but don't cry later when all this comes true.
     
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  5. 348Jeff

    348Jeff Formula 3

    Oct 25, 2011
    1,496
    UK
    Full Name:
    Jeff
    I have mixed feelings about all this. Whilst I fully understand what Brian's saying I also sympathize with owners (like me too).

    I certainly wouldn't recommend chopping up the subframe but if I understand properly the whole problem boils down to there being insufficient gap between the drive cog that the belt runs on and the toothed pulley wheel.

    In order to remove/replace the belt that toothed wheel needs to come forward and in order to this you have to remove the nut off the end of the crankshaft and in order to do that you have to move the engine (remove from car etc) out of the way of the frame just in front it (the one you want to cut). IMO this is a design mistake as even if you took the engine out the car it would make replacement easier if you could just lock the cams, loosen the tensioner and slip the belt off like most cars I've come across...????

    Never tried it but would love to know whether moving the wheel round to where the 2 teeth are missing would allow that?? Mostly probably not but I'm sure there would be a way to modify the wheel to somehow allow this - would be much "safer" than cutting up your frame and get to the actual root of the problem.
     

    Attached Files:

  6. Wade

    Wade Three Time F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Mar 31, 2006
    32,793
    East Central, FL
    Full Name:
    Wade O.
    If anyone chooses to forego Brian's risk assessment (Post #54) then, to maintain the body's structural integrity, I would suggest using a support brace throughout the entire maintenance process.

    Just put the brace in place before you begin with the engine package/subframe removal.

    Tools and equipment like this are used in aviation all the time.


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  7. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    33,736
    Austin TX
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    Brian Crall

    I disagree 100%. It stems from buyers who bought a car that no reputable source ever said was inexpensive to maintain then wanted to maintain it inexpensively.
    They are cut from exactly the same cloth as those who buy a house next to the airport and then complain about noise.

    The car was designed to have the engine removed to be properly serviced. I have a unique suggestion TAKE IT OUT TO SERVICE IT OR DO NOT BUY IT.
     
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  8. Rupp3r

    Rupp3r Karting

    Aug 26, 2016
    182
    France
    I will get some bashing but my 2 cents :

    I do understand the willingness to do the engine in situ as I did it myself on my Mondial T but I would never cut the frame.
    But if it is the same as on my Mondial T, I don't understand why it would be needed since the belt (and much more) can be done in situ by just removing the tank.
    I was able to Crack the pulley bolt without touching the engine and here the pulley can be moved forward to free the belt.
    In order to fully remove the pulley I just had to undo the front engine mount and to lift the front of engine.
    If anyone is positively curious :

    https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/mondial-t-engine-in-major.591022/
     
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  9. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
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    I'd never consider it.
     
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  10. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Nov 19, 2001
    22,574
    The Brickyard
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    The Bad Guy
    That was impressive!
     
  11. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    33,736
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    Brian Crall
    I once did timing belts on a TR in one working day. The cars are old enough now there is no way that is happening.
     
  12. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    33,736
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    Brian Crall
    Beyond idiotic. The money is not in big jobs. it is in many small jobs. Ever hear of Oil Changers? They make a lot of money. If I never removed another Ferrari engine I'd be far better off.
     
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  13. 308 GTB

    308 GTB F1 World Champ
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    Feb 7, 2002
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    Barry Wolinsky
    And dangerous.
     
  14. 308 GTB

    308 GTB F1 World Champ
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    Feb 7, 2002
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    Barry Wolinsky

     
  15. INTMD8

    INTMD8 F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Jun 10, 2007
    6,488
    Lake Villa IL
    Agree 100% :D

    I never understood/do not understand the aversion to removing the driveline as intended.

    Any alternative method seems akin to building a ship in a bottle.... which seems much less favorable to me.
     
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  16. pnicholasen

    pnicholasen Formula 3

    Jan 14, 2011
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    Paul Nicholasen
    Once again let me make it clear I'm not advocating anyone go out and " butcher " their car. I'm all for people dropping their engines...in fact I'm the idiot who made the half-assed video on how to actually do it:
    as well as the sleep inducing series on how to perform the " major ". My only goal is to make 348 ownership as accessible as possible, so please keep egg throwing and raspberries to a minimum.
    This thread is just dreaming if a Utopian world where for those who can't DIY the service, owning a 348 or 355 would be a little more attainable than it is at present. Unfortunately destined to remain a dream...

    Sent from my VS990 using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
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  17. Ferrarium

    Ferrarium F1 Veteran
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    Interesting thread none the less.
     
  18. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
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    Mitchell Le
    Nah, let's keep life interesting by making it a take-engine-out-tune-up thing. How else are we going to get you tube videos like the one that just came out where the professional mechanic bent the valves by doing the timing wrong.
     
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  19. pnicholasen

    pnicholasen Formula 3

    Jan 14, 2011
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    Paul Nicholasen
    More important question: how long did it take the prop dept. to rig up that car to instantly self destruct? No CGI back then, kiddies!

    Sent from my VS990 using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
  20. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    26,294
    socal
    Where is the photo of the 348 with a semi circle cut out of the frame so the damper can be removed? Then the corollary picture showing a similar semi-circle and a semi-circle plate welded on top for a cleaner more reputable look? That's a butcher with skills.
     
  21. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
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    See post 25 above.
     
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  22. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
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    Nov 29, 2001
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    Mitchell Le
    And where is the NSX now? You mean the Acura NSX where Honda shipped $50K with each of the car sold new? The NSX that only sold a few thousand copies over its entire life time? The NSX that was recently reintroduced that looks like the new Corvette? The NSX that was at Car Week in Monterey that could not get me to a test drive? You mean THAT NSX?
     
  23. Ferrarium

    Ferrarium F1 Veteran
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    Eric
    Whats worse is that was done on purpose, it was planned from the start to do that actually.
     
  24. AceMaster

    AceMaster Three Time F1 World Champ

    Feb 6, 2009
    34,548
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    Full Name:
    Mike
    I've never owned a shop, nor will I pretend to know how that business is operated, but this is a sincere question, honestly, I hope this doesn't come across the wrong way. Do shops not profit from their hourly rate? I always assumed they do, so the follow up question (under my assumption) is wouldn't it be profitable for a 40 hour engine out service?

    If the answer to my first question is "no", then I apologize for making the wrong assumption.

    Also, I have the utmost respect for people who service automobiles, professional/certified and otherwise (DIYers).
     
  25. pnicholasen

    pnicholasen Formula 3

    Jan 14, 2011
    1,357
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    Paul Nicholasen
    I'm no expert, but I would think they make enough money on their hourly rate to make a living and pay expenses. Where it gets good is when you charge the flat 40 hour rate, and you've have enough experience that you can do it in half the time.

    Sent from my VS990 using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
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