488 - Why are Pistas not selling ? | Page 3 | FerrariChat

488 Why are Pistas not selling ?

Discussion in '458 Italia/488/F8' started by Texas2step, Jan 12, 2020.

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  1. 06viper

    06viper Rookie

    Mar 31, 2019
    28
    NM-AZ
    Pistas are selling just fine. There are just a lot of exotic cars on the market for sale right now! And not just Ferrari, all brands. Some people may also believe a recession is in the near future so they are holding on to their money and not buying toys aka exotic cars.
     
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  2. GoHardGT3RS

    GoHardGT3RS Karting

    Jan 1, 2015
    68
    Germany
    Sorry, I don't get the logic for NO F8 VS.

    Can someone explain (again) please?
     
  3. Carrerarsr

    Carrerarsr Formula Junior

    Sep 29, 2014
    279
    Germany
    Full Name:
    Frank
    There will be no Versione speciale of the F8 coming to the market.
     
  4. SoCal to az

    SoCal to az F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 25, 2012
    14,209
    Arizona
    The platform is old and done. Ferrari is moving on to hybrid cars. The non hybrid v8 is being phased out. It doesn't make sense for them to introduce the F8 VS while at the same time promoting a V6 hybrid (little brother) which is the replacement for the Ferrari v8 series. The V8 hybrid (SF 90) has already been introduced and should be hitting the owners garages around this time next year.
     
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  5. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Veteran

    May 29, 2019
    6,023
    Hopefully some place nice.
    Full Name:
    A.B
    Ha, fancy that. And here I thought one would be an idiot for not buying one:D I learn something every day. If Pista ownership makes a person an idiot, where does the lowly Pista Spider owner rank???
     
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  6. 09Scuderia

    09Scuderia Formula 3

    Nov 20, 2011
    2,421
    USA
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    Max
    depends on how many they make...
     
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  7. Shadowfax

    Shadowfax F1 Rookie
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    Jun 10, 2016
    4,066
    Australia
    #57 Shadowfax, Jan 13, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2020
    Absolutely there was no news of F8 at the time Pista allocations were finalised at my dealer. At the time I ordered my 488 I was assured in no uncertain terms that it had a minimum 5 year life cycle before any talk of a new model would get out. So my order was placed and it arrived late 2017. Cant recall exactly when F8 was announced - about 11 - 12 months after - but it was certainly well before any new model announcement was expected to happen. All the talk and focus at that time was on Pista and them boom F8 was announced early and it wasn't long before the jitters set in with the 488 (and Pista) crowd. Prices on 488 plummeted.

    Anyway back to topic; Why are Pista's not selling? Well they are but certainly not very quickly as one would have expected to be the case. There are clearly very few buyers with this level of ticket anyway, least of all prepared to part with it at the moment for reasons previously mentioned. Everyone expects a bargain now - even used Pista buyers - and with Pista's for sale they seem to be sitting for an inordinate amount of time unless they are super special in options and/or priced to sell. Gone are the days you would see one advertised for over 1m like the first ones that become available. Now they are close to msrp and still not moving. I suspect deals would get done below msrp now but the sellers won't fess up to that. These 2 red ones have been sitting for a few months now and no takers. The yellow one is new up and looks very well spec'd. And when I look at the asking price adding the cost of the onroads places it at close to 1m which just happens to be what it would owe taking into account the changeover on the 488. https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/ferrari/488pista/coupe-bodystyle/
    So this guy wants to cash out for whatever reason but those of us who own a Pista and have driven it know how good it is and certainly wouldn't want to sell it if we didn't have to. So it would be very painful for these guys having to sell in a few ways. The way I look at these sales is, it's clearly a financial decision for them to pull the ripcord now while they can at least get some of their money back as they clearly cant afford to own it and use it.

    And, run-outs always take a very big hit especially when the new model can be ordered - that's not even news.
     
  8. Shadowfax

    Shadowfax F1 Rookie
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    Jun 10, 2016
    4,066
    Australia
    Nice to hear that coming from you ppg70! It goes to confirm what my dealer has said all along (NO VS!) although my dealer did assure me of other things too :mad: So it's become a case of what can you believe anymore where Ferrari is concerned. Dealer says one thing Ferrari HQ does another.

    I guess the lack of trust given the speculative talk of there being a F8 VS cuts in with many 488/Pista owners especially when some have reported their dealer says there will be one. Add all that to the costly game we all played and it doesn't bode well for a very trusting relationship with the brand.
     
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  9. Shadowfax

    Shadowfax F1 Rookie
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    Jun 10, 2016
    4,066
    Australia
    This is generally true but then nobody likes dropping a bundle especially where it can be avoided, and, the same fun can be had anyway.
     
    Astrid.Didier likes this.
  10. Astrid.Didier

    Astrid.Didier Formula Junior

    Nov 8, 2019
    651
    I was asking myself the same question, I have seen lately lots of Pistas for sale too, but the prices are quiet high especially for the spiders! Maybe that's the ONLY reason! I really don't know!
     
  11. SoCal to az

    SoCal to az F1 World Champ
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    Nov 25, 2012
    14,209
    Arizona
    Of course. O one wants to lose money but in this game it’s a very distinct possibility.
     
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  12. Newjoint

    Newjoint Formula 3

    Jan 17, 2016
    1,070
    When Ferrari was a privately held company they were content to be a boutique brand. Now as a publicly traded company they are leaving little or no money on the table for their clients to make. Those days are over. The cars are now just that-cars that will depreciate at whatever rate the market determines is appropriate and the real winners are those who buy these cars (new or used) to keep and drive and enjoy.


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
     
  13. Solid State

    Solid State F1 Veteran
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    Feb 4, 2014
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    Maximus Decimus Meridius
    You missed the Pista Piloti for a total of eleven 458's. F8 VS would make an even dozen!
     
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  14. RoyalPink

    RoyalPink Formula 3
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    Mar 18, 2019
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    And an F8 VS Spider would make a baker's dozen.
     
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  15. Ferrari 308 GTB

    Ferrari 308 GTB F1 Veteran

    Feb 21, 2015
    7,716
    Tropical
    You know the writing is on the wall when even the you tubers have stopped trying to flip 'their' cars.
     
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  16. Shadowfax

    Shadowfax F1 Rookie
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    #66 Shadowfax, Jan 14, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2020
    I would never suggest for a second that money would not be lost in the process. I was referring to the inordinate high percentage of money lost considering new price paid, usage, and short time held in most cases.

    In this regard i would expect Pista to deliver a better outcome in comparison to the horror stories which have now become very much the norm.

    Given the high percentage of outlay now being lost on new Ferrari production models also indicates they are either massively overpriced or the used market has a very low ceiling, made up predominately of buyers simply unable to pay beyond a certain figure.

    I suspect it is a combination of both.
    So to those who haven’t felt it yet, welcome to the new world of Ferrari ownership! This is why i strongly advocate extreme usage at every given opportunity instead of saving it up for the next owner who clearly wont be able to provide any form of acceptable return.
     
    RoyalPink likes this.
  17. Fixer03

    Fixer03 Karting

    Nov 1, 2015
    193
    Ferrari have adopted McLaren's business model of bringing a new car out every other month, this most certainly doesn't help.
    In the past you could run a Ferrari for a couple of years and the loss would be minimal, them days are long gone & I cannot see myself in another new Ferrari as every single one will lose massivly when driven off the forecourt. It was the exclusivity of the brand that attracted me along with a brilliant car but things have changed over the last 5 years starting with the 488.
     
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  18. Shadowfax

    Shadowfax F1 Rookie
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    Jun 10, 2016
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    Those times are clearly gone now for sure. I don't think Ferrari set out to adopt Maclarens business model - although they have now - but things certainly went south when 720 was released followed by 600lt. It's like 488 was put on a the edge of a precipice by Maclaren when they released 720 and then Ferrrai boots their own cars along with the owners over the edge with a revised version which barely keeps pace with the car that put 488 on the edge (720) in the first place.

    Maclaren and Ferrari are definitely on equal footing in the heavy depreciation stakes. All this talk a year or 2 back that a 488 was a safer bet than a 720 is well out the window... God help those guys paying the price for sf90. That is not going end well.
     
  19. Jo Sta7

    Jo Sta7 F1 Rookie
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    Oct 13, 2015
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    Ferrari hasn’t adopted Mclarens business model. 812-F8-Roma-Porto-SF90-Lusso are all sufficiently different that the market doesn’t feel saturated. Mclarens are all so similar to the uninterested public they may as well be the same car.
     
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  20. Fixer03

    Fixer03 Karting

    Nov 1, 2015
    193
    A McLaren dealer has just opened near to me in the UK and there must be 40 720S sat in the compound, also approx 15 600LT's.
     
  21. RoyalPink

    RoyalPink Formula 3
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    Mar 18, 2019
    1,132
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    John D.
    Bingo matey. Your best return is the most amount of miles and enjoyment you can get, which should be the primary focus during ownership.
     
  22. exoticcardreamer

    exoticcardreamer Formula 3

    Dec 9, 2014
    1,051
    usa
    Full Name:
    doesitmatter
    The curious thing to me is the Pistas for sale at third party exotic dealers. I've seen a number of them go through Ilusso in SoCal. That dealership is where other dealers wholesale cars or send cars that they couldn't sell.


    It's also a place where owners will sell their cars outright (not sure why they wouldn't go through their dealers on a car like the Pista).
     
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  23. Gh21631

    Gh21631 F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 24, 2011
    8,325
    East

    Just one perspective, I believe some dealers have alienated their clients by first telling them they had to buy a Lusso ($125k loss) and that the Pista would be fewer than actual and that it would more than make up for the loss on the Lusso. The customer goes back to dealership to sell their "limited" car and that same dealer is telling them its only worth X now. Customer says OK, thanks and moves on to another dealer. The 3rd party resellers dont mind having a Pista sit in their showroom on consignment.
     
  24. ghost

    ghost F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Dec 10, 2003
    10,043
    Singapore
    To be honest, I'm a bit confused with this comment.

    I don’t recall any one of us signing a contract with Ferrari whereby Ferrari promised you their cars would defy the laws of depreciation and that you would make money. Yet for years, that's the beautiful benefit that owners got. Low production, moderate pricing and exceptionally high demand (partially as the result of low output) meant that you could own a Ferrari, drive it for thousands of miles, and sell it at a profit two years later or, worse case, sell it for at least what you paid for it.

    Ferrari ownership for years has simply been a game of working capital. If you've got the capital and a good relationship with a dealer, buy the hottest car du jour, enjoy it, and then expect to get the capital back, or even better, make some money over that ownership period. When the next V8 hottie from Maranello comes out, rinse and repeat. Good for all the owners that milked it during this time. Sucked for Ferrari, who captured very little of the hubris in terms of bottom-line profit.

    Now, Ferrari has gotten smarter. IT increases prices each year - sometimes a lot. IT produces a lot more cars because it now can. IT comes out with model extensions on highly successful platforms to milk a common architecture as much as it can. IT makes the decision between Limited Editions and Limited Productions. Guess what?! As a result of these recent corporate decisions, Ferrari has made a ton of money. And investors who have bought the stock have been handsomely rewarded.

    The downside of this strategy, however, is the profit capture has shifted away from the Consumer to the Company. But so what. That’s the way it is with most car companies. Just because Ferrari depreciation curves have (finally) come in line with the rest of the market and – egads! – their cars actually depreciate, Ferrari has let enthusiasts down? Come on, it doesn’t work that way.

    When you’re a public company, it’s about enhancing margins, increasing profitability, and ensuring growth. This leads to higher multiples, which in turns yields a higher stock price. They’ve become better, smarter, and more focused about the game, and how to play it. I’ve said it once, let me say it again: stakeholders have been impressed at the results. See the chart ahead.

    So welcome to the New Normal. Ferrari V8 cars will depreciate. You will lose money. But accept that reality and stop treating this like the yield-bearing financial instrument that you have been, and focus instead, on the fact that you’ve got one of the greatest automotive treats the world has ever seen in your hands, and the engine of the decade behind your butt. And most of all, stop blaming Ferrari.

    In the immortal words of Will Smith: “Don’t hate the player. Hate the game.”

    See below for the stock price of Ferrari since it's debut. Point made. If you want to stop losing money, avoid the cars, and buy the stock.

    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  25. Fixer03

    Fixer03 Karting

    Nov 1, 2015
    193
    I take some of your points but how long do you think customers will flock to the dealers to buy cars that lose 50k when driven off ?

    Me for one will not be and Ive spent a million pounds on them in the last 6 years.

    The appeal has gone for me !
     
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