"Singer" Ferrari

Did any one take a stab at the size of the market for this proposed endeavor?
20-40 cars?

They could have already banked the cars. Finish up the Porsches on order while developing the new Singer 308. BAM, 10-15 more years of putting dinner on the table.

 

Singer 308 - yes. Maybe use a modified 355/360 engine and work with Makela on a Gr IV-type CF body work.

Singer 355 - no. It would be a solution to a question nobody asked. You said it best: the 355 basically is a Singer Ferrari...It's already one of the best driving Ferraris. Maybe if it is possible to put a 308 style carbon fiber body onto a 355 chassis... Personally, I think the 355 exterior is as at least as nice as the 308; so why change it.

 

Singer 355 what if it had revised Ohlins suspension, 400+ real horsepower, carbon brakes, more torque and 100-150kg less weight. I would have thought that would improve things more than a little.

 

Sherpa - If you did use a 308 as a base would you spin the engine around to make it longitudinal and then extend the wheelbase a little? If so wouldn't it look like a GTO or would you keep wheelbase and dimensions stock?

 

Such mods would be nice, but would these step changes be enough in the spirit of creating a Singer car i.e. modern touches with retro styling?

What I would like to see is a modified 355 drivetrain (in a 308 tube frame chassis?) with Dino 206 SP styling in carbon fiber. This would be an interesting combination in which Singer combines the best attributes of the non-V12 mid-engine Ferraris.

 

Then it's something else - not really a Singer 308. I could see a stroker motor like what Paul and Scott do here but not what you're suggesting.

As far as the $300k, that's what I would pay, not necessarily what they would charge. But I have had long correspondence with Kari Makela and what he does with $300k makes Singer look unnecessary. Singer would be a viable option at $300k, not $500k, when you consider what Kari does.

 

I don't think it's financially a win for Singer with Ferrari. It works for Porsche because the basic 911 design hasn't changed much aestically in decades. They were able to "massage" the basic body design and then tweak the details without a lot of blowback from the basic design. Granted they could do this with a 308 but I'm not sure the market is there. I think it will be looked upon more as a "kit". Ferrari guys are way more uptight about modified cars. Hell, they are even afraid to put miles on them out of fear for resale. They spend more time watching values wondering "what if" then driving them!

I think the outlaw approach is better. Of course, I'm biased because that's what I'm doing.

Having stripped a 308 down to its shell I can say that modifying the body is a major, major undertaking. Ferrari assembled these cars in such a way that it requires extensive surgery to replace even the fenders. I'm talking get out the cutting disk and never look back maneuvers. Not for the faint of heart!

Even though I am capable of hand-forming my own aluminum body or carbon fiber panels I'm hesitant to do so. One, the design IMHO is already 95% perfect and two, I don't think it would be worth the time and money. Having weighed every single part the weight savings is negligible. The only thing it is in dire need of is some coke bottle ala the 288 GTO but that would require major surgery.

Instead I am focusing on very subtle tweaks to the surfacing such as cleaning up the clutter (marker light, etc.). Basically I'm taking a Rod Emory Outlaw approach. Tasteful changes that 99% of the people won't notice. A subtle +/- an inch here and there. Carbon doors, F40ish carbon hood, clean bumpers, Singeresque interior, Suspension, brakes, convert to carbs or TB's, etc., etc.

I've been stalled getting ready for Cavallino but I'm looking to get back on schedule after Amelia. Frankly, I'm not sure if I should go with Ohlins for the suspension upgrade or with my MCS connection.

 

550 with a Roots blown 427.
Now we're singin.

 

The problem with the 308 as such is that it is not special enough. Porsche had their stripped down racing 911's that everyone was Jonesing for even back in the day. The 911 had built in provenance if you will.
Now Ferrari had the same character car but it was the 288GTO not the 308. Not that the 308 was bad (I had one) but even then the proportions were too short. The 288 fixed all the bugs with the longer longitudinal engine placement and the tastefully bulging body and gave it some Oooomph ! The 308 was bog slow. Thats the memory people have

Stretch a cheap 308 and put in a 4 valve 348 drivetrain (also cheap) and there you go. Minimize the interior ala F40 or CS, update the AC and entertainment system and thats it.
People might spend 300K+ for a 288GTO continuation but not a 308 IMO.

 

I don't think Singer Ferrari's will work. I'm a massive fan of the 348 I posted about earlier, but it's a one-off. The Singer aesthetic is not suited to Ferrari's IMO. It's just too much of a stretch. There is no homogeneity like there is with the 911. Who knows, I might be proven wrong.

 

This sounds interesting. Have you considered Lancia Stratos/Michelotto 308 style coffin wheels? I think they would look great in a project such as this. There are nice repro's out there.

 

I have but I already own a brand new set of Compmotives in 17" ready to go. I like them better with a red car. I'm going to custom fab a cover that looks like the F40 LM center locks.

Another factor in this decision is the company that makes the coffin wheel in 17" doesn't have a good rep.

 

Be cool to see what they'd do w/a focused 550 Maranello effort. Perhaps w/early comp. GT's/250 GTO as basis of influence?

 

Would like to see a Singer 944...

 

Indeed. Love the look---but car deserved more cylinders.

 

Love to see the F40 LM look as i have Compo's too.

 

That348 twin turbo really is something! I am not sure about traction control but know why they did it

 

This post by mbzgurl might put an end to any ideas of commercialisation of this kind of car




New and Improved Ferrari Brand
The word from Maranello is that there will be a massive campaign to target "replica" Ferrari products which will be undertaken by the new management in 2015. Shredding replicas passed off as real cars, or "copy-cars" built on other manufacturers chassis and even "historic" cars that are pretenders, will be subject to copyright use of the logo, trademark and patent rights, and they will be selectively prosecuted to get the message across. The use of the word "Ferrari" where it’s used to add creditability, enhance business to a service or product will also be targeted by the new management.

The new management, whom has replaced much of the inner workings of Ferrari will take the Brand seriously and clean up those who ride the high road on the Ferrari name logo and the creditability of cashing in on the name. Companies changing the design of an existing original car for promotion of their own car-companies or Coach works will be called in. Even those with permission to use the name will be reviewed, as it seems the use of the name associated with something outside the control of the Maranello Company is deemed a liability of Ferrari Spa, and as such Ferrari wants to close those gaps in the use of their trade name.

Maranello is said to have reviewed past policies on the authorized use of the trade name which will be restricted when the name is used to solicit anything Ferrari deemed conversely involving the marque. That's coming directly from top management at Ferrari. In addition, the use of the Ferrari logo on a heavily changed and modified original car for commercial gain or business will not be tolerated and that door will close for many "designers" operating without a license and approval from Ferrari Spa. They said, "Maintaining the brand is part of the new skid marks on putting the brakes on people profiting from the Ferrari Brand without authorization".

 

+1. I'm really digging your thought process on this...

 

I believe the way Singer and other modifiers circumnavigate this is to convert existing owners cars rather than sell a complete product to an end user so no doubt they could do the same with a ferrari and there is nothing ferrari can do about it, also these companies do not replicate original parts, they subtly alter the look so that no copyright is infringed.

Once any car is sold to a person they then have every right to do whatever they please with it and no manufacturer can prevent that, its all down to the "commercial gain" element that ferrari would target, such as companies taking an existing car, altering it then selling it on as a ferrari. Even then I cannot see how they could prevent the original badges from a car being kept on the modified car, just stop new ones being added, but again if these are badges bought from ferrari then the purchaser can do what they like with them. I imagine is will be more of a case of "my lawyer is more expensive than your lawyer" when the legal letters start flying around.

 

What do others think about the bodywork modifications that Singer perform? I think they work well on a 911 because there must be at least 200+ variants of a 911 made (17 available new today) so having one styled as Singer have does not look wrong in any way. It's kind of a greatest hits 911. Given that there has probably never been an after market Ferrari bodywork change that is better than the factory original (IMHO) and given that we typically only see one version of each body shape (excepting the 308/328/288), I wonder how well Singer style body modifications would work? I think perhaps that the idea of a Singer Ferrari might work well with a lighter carbon body that does not depart from the original shape and concentrate more on the mechanical side and interior. The car would be a real sleeper.

I would be keen to hear what others think. On one hand, part of me likes the idea of a very stock appearance with a beast underneath. On the other hand a modified body could look great but it could also look terrible if it were not done right and there will always be people that hate any change. In my way of thinking Ferrari got Pininfarina to reimagine the 308 bodywork and got the GTO so a rework of the body can work!

 

Remembering this old thread I came across this. I wonder if these guys ever wound up producing this car.

http://www.evolutoautomobili.com/#

 

this is awesome i hope they build it. problem is it will surely be unaffordable to most

 

I'm sure it'll be $500K, like most Singers. It looks to be basically an entirely new car, like a Singer.

I think it's great but still needs some work. The front is too wide. I get it that they wanted to make the front with the same track as the rear. But it makes the front look like a Liberty Walk car. I actually messaged them to give them my 2 cents on that issue.