Ferrari Today - There's Something Missing

Agree with most of this...

 

I think the folks at Ferrari know their customer base pretty well since they easily sell all the cars they make. If they thought they could make MORE $$$ selling nimble, NA, MT, 6 cylinder, light weight cars they would be all over that product. As long as the car would not be perceived as “cheapening” the Ferrari brand, which could be a problem. So any thoughts of that car in the future is just a pipe dream. IMO

Porsche is far more customer oriented with the wishes of their customers - they brought back MT and still have NA cars in their overly broad list of models. But what do they make maybe 10-12 times as many cars as Ferrari? Additionally, they have more reasonable priced “entry” level cars. Ferrari’s entry level cars are really used Ferraris unless you think a $200k plus car is really entry level car.

Ferrari while not being a boutique company any more still is a very limited in the number of units they can produce so each model must be a real profit item. I also don’t think GM makes a lot on each base model Corvette but pretty good profit on the more units loaded with options. GM also makes a lot of Vets, way more than Ferrari’s total production.

 

All true, but then why does Ferrari make models like the FF? They never have been very logical. Maybe that's part of the charm.

 

I think the FF and Lusso sell a lot better in Europe than in the US. Just a guess, as if that were not the case the Lusso would have never been produced and would have produced something else.

 

Probably because there is a market for it, and it holds a shred of history which also explains the name change in the 2+2 line.

And some of the new millionaires have kids and long time clients have grandchildren

 

Enzo always liked the 2+2s. Count me as one that likes to bring the family along on drives sometimes.

 

For me it’s very simple - they don’t make analog vehicles anymore.

It’s all GT-R like cars that don’t do it for me.

the 430 was the last great Ferrari in my eyes.

the 458 albeit technically superior in every way just doesn’t give me the tingle when I drive.

To my eyes, the F8 is ugly as all hell.

The 812, meh. The Portofino, meh. California, meh.

I don’t know - maybe I’m just nostalgic.

I drove an F12, 488, and 458 Speciale, and although they were insanely good performers I just didn’t feel anything.

 

No disrespect. I get the analog versus digital debate. I can certainly understand how one might land on one side or the other. What I can’t understand is driving a F12, 488, and 458 Speciale and not feeling anything. I could go on and on, but I vividly remember my first drive in a F12. I swear that I had an out of body experience. It very nearly brought me to tears. I also can’t understand stringing together these words....”the 812, meh”. I guess everyone is different and deserves his/her own opinion. Cheers.

 

Lol, who said anything about the car I wish they'd build being $60k, corvettes won't even compete with the Cayman S. I would expect nothing less than $250k starting price. I understand how business works and reject the notion that milking a treasured brand and moving it further away from its differentiators is good for business. Eventually the well will be tapped. Plus, this thread alone is evidence enough that something is amiss.

Back to my original point - other luxury brands have found the sweet spot (maintaining core/base and expanding to new customers, markets, and segments) - Tiffany, Porsche, Apple, and Nordstrom to name just a few.

Ferrari may sell 8k cars a year now, but they could've sold 10k cars a year in the 2000s easily and still more now. Every dealer had a list 5x longer than their allocations could support. I don't buy that they are maximizing profit - if they were, they wouldn't have jaded so many customers and opened themselves to so much competition.

 

Just seeing your other post - I really agree with point #2 but I suppose I differ in that I think $200k is a good entry-level for the volume Ferrari would still produce. Porsche is doing it right, if Ferrari did it at 1/10th the scale (production) and 3x the price, I would be over the moon.

 

Instead of supercars and overweight GTs, how about Ferrari build a two-seat sports car with a top that drops for the open road?

 

What's missing is the soul, that thing that technology destroys and not just in cars either.

 

it’s not that I feel nothing from the drive, I just don’t feel the passion.

I’ve owned such fast GT-Rs that do everything superbly well and make a glorious noise, but it just doesn’t elicit passion or excitement.

 

Well it's a logical car for me If Ferrari didn't make the Lusso, I would not own a Ferrari. V12 are the only niche where there is no competitor that beats Ferraris.

Portofino is pointless IMO. Unusable rear seats.
Roma is a pretty Aston. Might as well buy an Aston.
488/F8 beaten by the 3 year old 720S in every significant respect.
SF90....overweight.


P.S. Lusso is also very overweight, but as a 4 seat family car that matters less. Would be better if it were built using Carbon Fibre of course.

 

I get what you are saying - but the gear shift to me is pretty brutal... at Monza in race mode, when you shift gears - it just feels to me like it cant be good for the longevity of the gear box... brutal is the only word I can think of ... same for the 488. its just Bham!

 

To me Porsche does a good job of dealing with the regulations and still having some exciting cars.. Look at the 911GT line . during 2018 and 2019 they built about 12000 NA cars that offered manual transmissions I am talking about the GT3 and GT3Rs.. both with a 4litre 6cylinder engine with 13.5 compression ratio and 9000 RPM really serious performance engines and in 2020 the 718 gt line will offer a 4liter 6 cylinder with manual transmission and in both coupe and spider...
They still offer the std line with the turbo 4 or turbo 6 but the point is they manage to squeeze in a good percentage of their production in NA high performance with or without a manual...
if they can do it Ferrari can also ....
the turbo line is fine but just does not come across as interesting as the old NA...
Ferrari really blew it with the whole fiasco about buying a lusso to buy a Pista to good customers.... then before they finished building the Pista offering the F8 for 100k less....

 

Porsche sells a whole lot more cars than Ferrari. So what Porsche can do and make financial success is not the same as what Ferrari can do and make financial sense. Additionally Porsche seems to be a bit more customer orientated than Ferrari. But I completely agree about the Lusso/Pista fiasco and then offering the F8 - to me that is a real screw job to their best customers! I guess Ferrari justified it by the fact the Pista is a limited production and the F8 is not.

However I don't know why but Ferrari seems to be able to get away with that kind of $hi!t and their customers just keep coming back for more. Additionally I had a friend walk a F-dealership last December and get on the list for an F8 allocation only to be called back a couple weeks later to see if he wanted a Pista. Evidently a sale fell out, perhaps someone got fed up with Ferrari or decided an F8 was close enough and $100k less?

 

I keep hearing the excuse that Ferrari is limited and can't do what Porsche does and to that I say Lamborghini can still make the NA V10 hurricane and the NA V12 adventador .. all they added is the SUV .. so if Ferrari wants to do it they can do what the others do...
re your friend being offered a Pista without buying before I have heard of others getting the same at the end .. they keep calling for me to buy this or that but I am really still pissed about being jerked around on the Pista....so that may slant my views

 

You need to keep in mind that Porsche and Lamborghini are but profit centers for VW along with Audi and Bentley. I am certain there is some/much crossover in the engineering between the various divisions of VW that Ferrari cannot avail themselves. I don't want to sound that I am defending Ferrari too much as I have agreed with you on other points.

But Porsche is not w/o their own share of fiascos - the 1979 930 being the "last 930 Turbo" and a couple years later introducing the same car as 911 Turbo, the 918/911 R and 911T fiasco, introduction of the Cayman GTS and the offering the GT4 a few months later just to name a few which I am aware.

So just keep things in perspective, all the companies take advantage of their loyal customers, it is just that some are more in-your-face about it than others. IMO

 

oh I know ......there are many but I was more speaking of the ability to build a real amazing NA high performance engine with a manual transmission....in Porsches case

 

I’m pretty freaking happy with my Ferraris and all the cool stuff I get to do with Ferrari and their cars.


Sent from my iPad using FerrariChat.com mobile app

 

Nothing is missing.
Ferrari responds to the current market not nostalgia.
Fine with me.
All the cars I care about were built years ago.
There was a thead about how the cup holder is such a significant improvement.
Awesome.
If thats what keeps Ferrari alive then equip each car with half a dozen cup holders, seat massagers, star roofs , electrification and autonomous driving.
Just support the "old crap".

 

Not sure why I haven't figured this out before but completely agree with you. Very good insight.

 

It’s called the Alfa 4C .
The 4C factory is an anonymous grey building right next door to the Ferrari factory In Moderna .The Ferrari factory has F signs / logos etc so no mistake what goes on there .

The 4C a stones throw away has no signage or logos .....looks like huge parts where house .
If only ...........! Marketing boys don’t you just love em ?Rumour has it they changed there mind at the 11 th hour and gave it to Alfa , but the building has no inkling external what goes on inside .

 

Too bad it doesn't come with a stick.