Why extended families should not fly together | FerrariChat

Why extended families should not fly together

Discussion in 'Aviation Chat' started by Juan-Manuel Fantango, Dec 12, 2019.

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  1. Juan-Manuel Fantango

    Juan-Manuel Fantango F1 World Champ
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  2. Gatorrari

    Gatorrari F1 World Champ
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    Thank God there were three survivors. I suspect icing and/or wind shear, both mentioned in the report, were at least partly responsible.
     
  3. donv

    donv Two Time F1 World Champ
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    We'll see what the report says, but more likely why no one should fly with people who are irresponsible. The airplane sat over night outside and almost certainly had a great deal of ice and snow on it-- and no deicing at that airport.
     
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  4. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    I remember reading an article about a husband and wife who refused to fly together because they did not want their kids to become orphans. The article was written because one of them died in a plane crash, but not both of them.
     
  5. Juan-Manuel Fantango

    Juan-Manuel Fantango F1 World Champ
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    I just think that it is foolhardy for a group this large, fully loaded, all related, with huge corporate ownership and responsibility and in bad weather makes no sense. I love the PC 12, my favorite single, but i can think of at lease three PC 12 incidents where families perished. One was because the fuel transfer pump became inoperable and one wing ran dry so the weight imbalance on pattern took them out. The others were weather related. So it is almost always about the pilot and their decisions.

    They should change the name of Katheryn's Report to The Beautiful Dead. I read it to learn and remain cautious.
     
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  6. Pranucci

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    My parents thought the same way. After my father died (not in a plane crash), I told my mother flying separately increased the chances one would crash. She didn’t appreciate that.
     
  7. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Mathematically, yes, practically not the same thing. Calculating the wrong thing. Probability of both parents dying if on the same plane, very low. Probability of both parents dying on separate aircraft, very low squared.
     
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  8. teak360

    teak360 F1 World Champ

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    But, per Pranucci's post, the probability of at least one of them dying is doubled if they fly separately.
     
  9. Solid State

    Solid State F1 Veteran
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  10. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Scott- Affirmative, but that is not what they were worried about. Twice very low is just an academic calculation compared to what they were trying to do. Odds of one of them surviving were much better with very low squared as the risk on separate planes.
     
  11. teak360

    teak360 F1 World Champ

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    True, close to zero chance. Wouldn't it be ironic if the parents took separate planes, and those two planes somehow had a mid-air collision?
     
  12. sigar

    sigar F1 Rookie
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    The article states the 19:1 is per hour. However, on a per mile basis that same article says private planes are 6 times safer than cars.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
  13. Gatorrari

    Gatorrari F1 World Champ
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    I'd rather take my chances on commercial airliners.
     
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  14. technom3

    technom3 F1 World Champ
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    Like anything it just depends on how it's managed.

    I would not fly commerical in Asia on a "local" airline. No way. No how. Not going to do it.
     
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  15. donv

    donv Two Time F1 World Champ
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    While I would agree with you, in some cases it is the best option. Would you rather take a train inter-China or fly on a Chinese airline? Personally, I'd take my chances with the airline-- their rail system doesn't have a great safety record.
     
  16. technom3

    technom3 F1 World Champ
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    Ohh I'd rather take the fast death of an airplane.
     
  17. thecarreaper

    thecarreaper F1 World Champ
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    Plane was overloaded and a load imbalance is still suspected. They had 12 people + stuff, plane was rated for 9.
     
  18. Tcar

    Tcar F1 Rookie

    Maybe.... loading is based on weight. Looks like several were kids, one very small, so it could have been within weight parameters. Seats are another issue.

    Many are thinking that ICE was the big culprit.
     
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  19. Juan-Manuel Fantango

    Juan-Manuel Fantango F1 World Champ
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    “It seems a classic case of no deicing chemicals were sprayed or that there was some kind of buildup of new snow on the wings,” said AccuWeather Senior Meteorologist Alex Sosnowski. “Or is it possible the airspeed indicator was clogged with, or again became clogged with, snow and ice? Or, did they damage something on the plane while clearing it of snow and ice?”

    Ice and snow need to be properly removed from a plane for the flight to be legal, and if that doesn't happen, the consequences can be dire. Variations in drag and lift could be substantial if a plane is not properly de-iced, an aviation expert confirmed with AccuWeather.

    Three of the plane’s warning systems – the stall warning, stick shaker and stick pusher – activated within 15 seconds after liftoff, the NTSB report noted. The airplane immediately rolled about 10 degrees to the left after takeoff. The plane then reversed to five degrees to the right before it “ultimately entered a 64-degree left bank as the airplane reached its peak altitude of 460 feet above ground,” according to the report.

    It’s also possible the time taken to clear the plane’s snow and ice affected pre-flight preparations. The pilot and passenger worked for three hours before being joined by the remaining passengers shortly before the flight, according to the National Transportation Safety Board report. The pilot requested clearance from Minneapolis Air Route Traffic Control Center (ARTCC) at 12:24 p.m., saying he’d be ready in five minutes. At 12:27 p.m., he received clearance with a void time of 12:35 p.m. No radio communications were received from the pilot and radar contact was never established. At 12:40 p.m., Minneapolis ARTCC contacted the Chamberlain airport manager, who advised the plane had departed about 10 minutes earlier. An alert notice was then issued.

    Another factor that could have contributed to the crash was a possible load imbalance. The Pilatus PC-12 pilot's information manual notes the "maximum number of occupants is 9 passengers" plus 1-2 pilot(s). According to the National Transportation Safety Board report, there were 12 people on the plane.
     
  20. Juan-Manuel Fantango

    Juan-Manuel Fantango F1 World Champ
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    Goes for companies as well. Just read this comment on the tragic LA crash.

    "This is just one reason, of many, why our firm does not permit executives, corporate officers, directors, board members to travel on the same aircraft at the same time. The reliability of air travel (private and commercial) makes the unthinkable seem impossible. Yet it may take one aircraft accident, one malfunction, or even a chain of the most unlikely events to spawn disasters and bring a company to its knees."

    http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2019/12/piper-pa-31t-cheyenne-ii-n42cv-fatal.html?m=0
     

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