Ferrari FF alternator and battery issues. Want higher amp alternator...where? | FerrariChat

Ferrari FF alternator and battery issues. Want higher amp alternator...where?

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by Future328, Aug 1, 2016.

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  1. Future328

    Future328 Rookie

    Sep 9, 2014
    34
    SoBe
    Full Name:
    Thomas
    Hi all, '14 FF here, about 15K on her. Car has been trouble free from day one minus a persistent charging issue. I am on my second battery as of last month. I use the car pretty much every few days, and I do a lot of city driving. If it will be more then a week I also use a trickle charger. I don't think the issue was two "faulty" batteries as FNA claims, I think the alternator in these cars just isn't strong enough considering all the electronics and such. I am sick of dealing with this, and need to do something about it.

    Does anybody know the amps of the FF alternator?

    I am thinking of having this one rebuilt to put out some extra amps (I know someone who can do this). Or buying one that puts out more power as that would help low rpm situations the most I think. Which I think is my issue. Not sure where I would even start to look to find a more powerful alternator for this car though?

    Any ideas folks?
     
  2. rugby

    rugby Formula Junior

    Apr 10, 2015
    364
    Atlanta
    #2 rugby, Aug 1, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I am not familiar with the FF, but in general it is unlikely your alternator is inadequate. My 360 has a 100 amp alternator and I imagine that the FF alternator will be at least that much. So unless you have a 1,000 watt sound system that you run at eardrum damage levels most of the time, 100 amps should be more than enough to service the needs of the car and keeping the battery charged.

    However, it is quite possible that your electrical charging system is malfunctioning. The dealer should have been able to check the charging function of the alternator, as well as the integrity of the battery connections. I assume they did that and found it to be OK.

    But you may have an intermittent problem. One way to check that is to do your own monitoring as you drive the car. If the car has no voltmeter on the instrument cluster, you can plug your own voltmeter into the car and observe the voltage.

    Typically, a well-performing alternator will start charging at around 14.6 volts at idle, and then settle down to 13.5-13.8 at idle after some driving. That would be normal behavior. Any voltages outside of those ranges would indicate regulator or alternator problems.

    As long as the alternator voltage is above 13 volts, you are charging the battery. If the voltage is above 15 volts, you are cooking the battery.

    One way to do the monitoring indirectly is to build an adapter for your voltmeter to use with the cigarette lighter outlet. You can get a digital voltmeter for 20 bucks, an adapter for less than 5 bucks and attach the adapter to the voltmeter leads. That will let you keep an eye on the charging voltages as you drive around.

    If you do that and confirm that the voltages are normal, it may well be a battery problem. If the battery is only a year old, it should be a warranty issue.

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  3. JCR

    JCR F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Mar 14, 2005
    9,992
    H-Town, Tejas
    Just buy one of these.
    https://www.google.com/search?q=cigarette+voltage+meter&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjug8HH9KDOAhUIKGMKHdkkDQ0Q_AUICSgC
     
    Ak Jim likes this.
  4. rugby

    rugby Formula Junior

    Apr 10, 2015
    364
    Atlanta
  5. JCR

    JCR F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Mar 14, 2005
    9,992
    H-Town, Tejas
    If that's the case break out the old Fluke Multimeter.
     
    vraa likes this.
  6. ar4me

    ar4me F1 Rookie
    Owner

    Apr 4, 2010
    3,114
    Southern California
    Full Name:
    Jes
    Given that it is a 2014 and supposedly still under factory warranty I would hesitate to modify the charging system with a modified or different higher output alternator outside an authorized service facility... I wouldn't want to provide any excuses for them down the road... Maybe just me...
     
  7. Cribbj

    Cribbj Formula 3

    Couple of things come to mind:

    1. Have you installed any aftermarket electronics that could be increasing the parasitic draw when the engine isn't running?

    2. Have you checked the parasitic draw with the engine off? There could be a high resistance earth somewhere in the car's electrical system that is draining the battery. (Leaking diodes in the alternator are a common culprit).

    3. Before opting for a higher output alternator, I would look into putting a smaller pulley on the existing unit to boost its output at low RPM. This is assuming you're not bouncing off the rev limiter every time you shift.....
     
  8. Future328

    Future328 Rookie

    Sep 9, 2014
    34
    SoBe
    Full Name:
    Thomas
    Everything checks out electrical system wise, alternator is good, battery tender is good, seems like it is yet another "bad" battery. After more research, it seems like other have had issues with the OEM batteries. I am going with an Interstate this time that others have had good success with.

    Thanks -
     
    Bigilo likes this.
  9. stevecomp

    stevecomp Formula Junior

    Mar 1, 2013
    743
    South Australia
    Full Name:
    Steve
    360's have a 150 amp alternator not 100 amp.
     
  10. FrankCo

    FrankCo Rookie

    Jul 19, 2016
    2
    The FF alternator is 100A only
     
  11. KNOKKi

    KNOKKi Karting

    Jul 20, 2015
    66
    Amsterdam
    Can anybody verify that the FF alternator is 100 Amps? Seems a bit low to me. It is really hard to find output currents for Ferrari alternators. I need to know in order to prevent the LiFePO4 I want to install from exploding. Parts numbers for the available alternators are:
    Denso 325300 104210-6471
    Denso 263834 104210-6470
    If anyone knows the output current of the alternators used in the F12, F12 TdF or 365GTC4 Lusso that could be convenient: same block.
    Thanks in advance!

    Wieger @Amsterdam
     
  12. KNOKKi

    KNOKKi Karting

    Jul 20, 2015
    66
    Amsterdam
    It took me some effort to get the data from Denso, but the FF battery is rated 12V - 165A.
     
  13. KNOKKi

    KNOKKi Karting

    Jul 20, 2015
    66
    Amsterdam
    Sorry, not the battery, but the alternator off course.....
     
  14. Motob

    Motob Formula 3
    Professional Ferrari Technician

    Nov 11, 2003
    2,238
    Frederick, Maryland
    Full Name:
    Brian Brown
    You cannot just replace the alternator with one of a higher output and expect it to work properly. The FF uses a "smart alternator" whose output is controlled by the NCM (Engine Motronic control unit). There is a sensor on the battery, called the IBS (intelligent Battery Sensor), which measures battery temperature, current and voltage. It sends this information to the NCM to help it determine the SOC (state of charge of the battery). There is also another ECU called the VS (Voltage Stablizer), which in addition with the IBS communicates with the NCM to stabilize the supply voltage for some of the utilities in the car.

    The NCM decides the battery voltage target by receiving the voltage, current and temperture signals from the IBS and then calculates the SOC. It then communicates the ECU inside the smart alternator to change its output. The NCM also sends the battery voltage and failure status (if present) to the NQS (instrument cluster) via the NBC (body computer). All of the communication between the NCM, IBC and VS takes place over the LIN network. The NCM communicates with the NBC over the C-Can line which communicates with the NQS over the B-Can line.

    You could put a 1000 amp alternator in the car, but unless you could find a smart alternator that can communicate with the NCM and reprogram the NCM for a higher output, then you are not going to get an output that is higher than stock.

    My recommendation is to make sure that the smart alternator/charging system is working as it should, replace the battery with the best battery that you can find and put the car on a battery tender every time you are not driving the car.

    Brian Brown
    San Francisco Motorsports
     
    gsholz and Leonardo Mangiolino like this.
  15. Reid

    Reid Karting

    May 18, 2018
    59
    Vancouver Canada
    Full Name:
    Reid Fox
    That vehicle uses an AGM battery you will see it has a sensor on the battery cable . The sensor senses the rate of charge and discharge on the battery and regulates the charging system. If you change to a lead/acid battery you need to go into the proper module and change the settings. I'm not familiar with the Ferrari system but I do know the technology. The vehicle needs to know if it is AGM or Lead/acid battery because they are handled differently. Aside from that the battery sensor needs to learn the state of the battery. You need to trickle charge the battery through the sensor overnight. It will then learn the state of charge. If your battery minder is directly on the battery the vehicle will never be able to calculate the state of charge. So the OEM is an AGM battery and if the battery is not OEM you need to tell it even if it is aftermarket AGM unless it is exactly the same size because the vehicle needs to be told the exact size and type of battery to control the charge properly AND it needs to be trickle charged through the sensor to a full state for the vehicle to learn the battery stste of charge.
    . Hope this helps.
     
  16. mikeprice

    mikeprice Rookie

    Jun 19, 2010
    24
    might I suggest one of these amazing bit of kit, got one on my California and E type texts me once a day and checks the charging system

    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-BM2-Bluetooth-4-0-Automobile-Battery-Monitor-Detector-Diagnostic-Instrument/254435754594?_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item3b3d8d8262:g:0CsAAOSw4pJd3rWY&enc=AQAEAAACUBPxNw%2BVj6nta7CKEs3N0qXpMkCCPOqh7wsxsXTy2jqMRr9bpfPYedQ6VBV%2FBoObgZCmfxfbkP45ct2UZKNCxI7SCMCciKVkbQbpfOXdoVv5ligpG2vVhuRwCo8gfxY%2BRGtibd3F1%2FNlVd8An00TAwPr2akGwpcq6DNyClCTRw9fk6PNC2v%2FpfAFFW4tWT8oUSNWrc0aTvCLPwVTAz%2F1DrdEbS3B9CwffIL6Pung9m7NH2ARsS2574O10tynS7zVH4orA8Wu8bsqpQ9bNRrmJF8nSryLzF6KCQiwOdW6pTS2iJ4eVfCtdSZNeM8rcLtVlcaWico7nTdxSDnK7lbFSHTrQR5fUDtei0WHvBsap1Fsi6LVwaB9fu8MmiczTWisFSN%2BrSUzuixOvsfs3ns3jXpksduLJhC5MaSoy2p2k0SoUDeBIZvCVtjst%2BYFLXfUQHhRWiEX4oCf%2BZS9r05TGL132mIvryWEo9uMnHwVlgl4cqH%2FThMeUexPsNQhwXTXCBk2ZGiUlfU7A%2B%2F77dAfmKK1fBGNl%2F2UmSQEulOoSXws%2BhdIYXgXo9Kyq3glbsCTdsH9u32TofC97%2BbWDup154BOXITARVF9SE52OWnExlWaBrpEtfTxsgqHk6lHeav2yyVgNumReuPdSSRUyvUkVRFvITKMtElnOKFDDDwqHkdlFk4gyj%2B4%2BX2IUzDB%2FthUxuDazc3KIAgEIzPczcKU%2Fpz5%2B7EtNWNndrLzOn3u%2FOSJlH0wEPU5OoFKhChpNVwmd5RRGJJi0p%2BOzzlEryp7q4g%3D&checksum=2544357545948c1ce6863acf4a0194bf558af6dbed29&enc=AQAEAAACUBPxNw%2BVj6nta7CKEs3N0qXpMkCCPOqh7wsxsXTy2jqMRr9bpfPYedQ6VBV%2FBoObgZCmfxfbkP45ct2UZKNCxI7SCMCciKVkbQbpfOXdoVv5ligpG2vVhuRwCo8gfxY%2BRGtibd3F1%2FNlVd8An00TAwPr2akGwpcq6DNyClCTRw9fk6PNC2v%2FpfAFFW4tWT8oUSNWrc0aTvCLPwVTAz%2F1DrdEbS3B9CwffIL6Pung9m7NH2ARsS2574O10tynS7zVH4orA8Wu8bsqpQ9bNRrmJF8nSryLzF6KCQiwOdW6pTS2iJ4eVfCtdSZNeM8rcLtVlcaWico7nTdxSDnK7lbFSHTrQR5fUDtei0WHvBsap1Fsi6LVwaB9fu8MmiczTWisFSN%2BrSUzuixOvsfs3ns3jXpksduLJhC5MaSoy2p2k0SoUDeBIZvCVtjst%2BYFLXfUQHhRWiEX4oCf%2BZS9r05TGL132mIvryWEo9uMnHwVlgl4cqH%2FThMeUexPsNQhwXTXCBk2ZGiUlfU7A%2B%2F77dAfmKK1fBGNl%2F2UmSQEulOoSXws%2BhdIYXgXo9Kyq3glbsCTdsH9u32TofC97%2BbWDup154BOXITARVF9SE52OWnExlWaBrpEtfTxsgqHk6lHeav2yyVgNumReuPdSSRUyvUkVRFvITKMtElnOKFDDDwqHkdlFk4gyj%2B4%2BX2IUzDB%2FthUxuDazc3KIAgEIzPczcKU%2Fpz5%2B7EtNWNndrLzOn3u%2FOSJlH0wEPU5OoFKhChpNVwmd5RRGJJi0p%2BOzzlEryp7q4g%3D&checksum=2544357545948c1ce6863acf4a0194bf558af6dbed29
     
  17. Ak Jim

    Ak Jim F1 Veteran
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Dec 23, 2007
    8,451
    North Pole AK
    Wow, that is complicated.
     
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