WOW, flat on its face. California prices have hit bottom..

Me too....nothing like crossing that 200 MPH "sound barrier".

 

Correct. T's produced MY 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018. Portofino replaced in 2019+

 

Let’s see, Dino was not a “real Ferrari”. I remember that. Have you seen the demand for them now? I am happy with a beautiful, white retractable hardtop to drive and have people ogling and taking video every where I go.
Time will tell but I am happy with this car


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You know, I'm generally not a fan of red interiors, but with the top down and contrasted to the white exterior, that's just stunning! But, I think I need to see more interior pics to be sure.
T

 

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This is the photo that sold me on the car.


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not long ago I was thinking that this old cali will have bigger price than cali T because it's NA with better sound, maybe all californias lose value fast? when price will be 50-60k$ it will stop loseing value, Ferrari is not porsche where you can buy old boxter for 10k or cayenne for 8k

 

Yummy!
T

 

This whole "real" or not "real" Ferrari thing is a bit ridiculous in my opinion. You drive what you want for your own reasons. As an everyday car, our Cali T is nearly perfect in every way possible for what it is and my wife F-ing loves it. She drove a 911 Turbo Cab, an AMG GT-C, a Bentley Cab all before settling on the T. There was never any contest. She's not our measuring how big hers is versus other drivers and/or their cars, she just loves it for it. I actually do too. It's much more user friendly than my R8 GT Spyder, if not nearly as precise.

We had a 488 spyder for a few weeks which of course, I LOVED, but she HATED. As far as depreciation goes, unless you are in the business of buying and selling cars, why would you care? I like that we picked up our T for over a $100k less than sticker ($279k) with 4k miles on it. So if it's still dropping? Big deal. She'll probably put 100k on that odo.

 

I bought a mis-marketed California 30 w/HS as my first Ferrari, earlier this year. I've purchased other cars over the years and have done enough research from the sidelines to make somewhat of an informed decision.

First off, I feel like I'm in bizzaro world, as I don't understand why so many people (fair to say, via the internet) are so against the original California. I think it is SO beautiful compared to the Portofino and the California T. Although the same genesis, for some reason I feel you can slap a Mazda, Jaguar, GM emblem on the front of the latter models and no one would bat an eye.

My personal take is that these cars in red look awful and perhaps worth the criticism. I feel I got the perfect interior/exterior spec (dark grey/tan) and I have had multiple people say to me "that's a classy looking car," which is exactly what I was going for. I had the same thought process that almost ALL the cars that people hated in the past are the cars the people pine for today. I look at my car and think how could anyone not think this is absolutely gorgeous? Within 30 minutes of picking it up, I stopped at a diner and noticed (from my window booth) multiple people stopping to ogle in the parking lot, including a ~65+ year old woman. It was not my attention to draw any attention and I assumed that the real world sentiment would be the same as the internet, but it is 100% the opposite. I've gotten similar reactions the few times I've taken in out, including people stopping to take pictures, etc (and I live in NY, where no one cares about anything).

Time will surely tell. I don't plan on selling it but I bought it with a subconscious firm belief that the 2014 30 with handling package will have future desire, despite the production quantities. Perhaps it will be the Dino of the 2050s.

All I can say is that I LOVE my car and I love the purchase I made. I've yet to see a sale of a 2014 H/S for less than I paid but I haven't looked too hard. If the California was the entry level Ferrari, meaning that it's the gateway to continued brand loyalty, then mission accomplished, as I'm already looking for my second to purchase, although it will be a classic.

 

Correct! And it still not is a Ferrari. Beautiful car that was the GENESIS for other Ferraris, but it is not a Ferrari. NOT trolling.

 

It’s no Testarossa, sure, but it does offer a fun experience, has this red engine thingy under the hood, and is beautiful....except the rear which I had no problem with prior to reading too many posts. Cali lovers don’t take the bait. Let’s move on to the other threads of comparing the Roma to a Jag or AM. Nothing to see here.


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Having seen the Portofino in real life for the first time recently, I realised how much more beautiful the original cali was. The Portofino just looks blah compared to the classically beautiful lines of the original California. The high back is a problem for this platform but the original Cali does a much better job of incorporating it into the overall shape.
The gearbox issues on early Calis are definitely a deterrent but maybe a Cali 30 with HS is the sweet spot and not to forget that glorious NA V8.

 

Owned a 13 Cali 30 3 years
I have had same DCT issue than original Cali (only odd gears available)
DCT sensors replacement under warranty.
Because of this I have moved to 17 Cali T HS.

 

DCT failures are caused by (avoidable) heat exposure.

DCT sensors (and machinery, mechanical or electrical) in general, fail primarily from heat degradation caused by inadequate cooling. Ferraris are designed to be driven at speed, not in daily slow commutes and idling in urban traffic. While you can do it, you do it at your own peril because these cars are simply not designed to go slowly. The DCT will not get SUFFICIENT COOLING if there is insufficient air going through the respective radiators. Aside from heat degradation the only other causes of sensor failure is defective component (identifiable, covered by warranty if car is properly shaken down after purchase) or normal life cycle/mileage, which would also correspond to the driving conditions I explained above. If you always drive these cars in spirited fashion with minimal idling at stops lights/signs, with regular maintenance the DCT shouldn't experience premature failures.

Having said this, the DCT in the CaliT is indeed a newer version but given the 755 Nm peak torque of the CaliT turbo engine does exceed the original 750 Nm spec of the 7DCL750, I'm not sure what the newer version incorporates.

Another much more important difference I notice is that the Cali30's DCT uses oil coolant with its dedicated radiator whereas the CaliT appears to use the water from its engine as coolant. So the CaliT's DCT cooling circuit is ultimately connected to its engine's radiator and RADIATOR FAN and by design, the CaliT's engine also acts as a heat sink for its DCT. Normal operating temperature for these engines is around 90°C. The Cali30's oil coolant system appears to be more expensive to implement because there's an additional special radiator and special oil... BUT IT DOES NOT HAVE A FAN. Therefore, if your Cali/Cali30 is crawling along, the engine will be happy enough because its radiator has a fan but the DCT will be compromised because Cali/Cali30 DCT's dedicated radiator RELIES ON AIR MOVEMENT DRIVEN BY VEHICLE SPEED. While the DCT radiator may pick up a bit of draft from the nearby radiator that air draft would also be HEATED air. So IMO you risk ruining the Cali/Cal30's DCT if you frequently drive slowly or idle a lot in traffic.

The heat exchangers for all DCT-equiped Ferrari are the same.

The last difference I can easily make out is that the CaliT has a bigger front grill for air intake and radiator grill with radiator and fans that are different models from the Cali30, but they do not appear visually different. The CaliT does need more air because of the turbos. Therefore I don't think this is a factor.

So in closing, I hope you will understand why the Cali/Cali30 are inherently more susceptible to (avoidable) heat damage caused by driving in slow traffic in hot climates. Walk to the back of your car when you finish a drive next time and stand near the DCT. Direct a fan or leaf blower at the DCT and feel the heat from the air coming from the DCT. I always run a leaf blower on my DCT and engine compartment for a few minutes after a long drive. The heat from a warm car can accelerate component failures - I know that from having experience with BMWs and Mercedes models. Stuff have literally broken down, caused by their having been repeatedly "cooked" in the garage after long drives.

Always understand how a car is designed before you criticize the design.

 

Well Ferrari told us that th Cali was designed to be a daily driver, A car you could enjoy and use without the worries of a high strung exotic. Driving in town, driving to the store, that was the mission of the Cali,

Placing the blame on owners is really misguided,

Look back at what Luca Di Montezemolo said. Look at what Michael Schumacher said, None of them said, don’t drive the Cali in traffic Don’t let the Cali idle. They said just the opposite.

The early Cali’s (2009/2010) teething problems were addressed and solved. So fortunately the later cars do not suffer from these reliability issues,

 

+1 Agree with you, thank you

Placing the blame on owners is really misguided,

The heat exchangers for all DCT-equiped Ferrari are the same ????

https://www.ricambiamerica.com/car-diagrams/ferrari/v6-v8/california-group/california-t/gearbox-oil-lubrication-and-cooling-system.html
https://www.ricambiamerica.com/car-diagrams/ferrari/v6-v8/california-group/california-09/lubrication-and-gearbox-oil-cooling-1.html

Regards

​

 

Guys, I only hope some readers will avoid the fate of DCT failures by heeding my explanation.

You and some other people may feel I am disparaging you instead of Ferrari for the failure of the Cali/Cali30’s DCT cooling system to handle slow daily driving. Well, we have all bought and owned silly things that don’t work the way we would like them to or the way they were advertised to. Most of the time we discover this pretty quickly but sometimes we don’t. Sometimes it’s the manufacturer’s fault, not ours, and sometimes it’s a little of both.

In this case, I think it’s a little of both and Ferrari has admitted to its mistake by redesigning the original small heat exchanger and cooling circuit like lucasines has stated. BTW, I pointed out that change laboriously years ago on FChat and I am just tired of having to repeat myself, and did not point that out. My point was that ALL Ferraris AFTER the Cali30 use the same heat exchanger so that device is not the culprit. It’s not the heat exchanger.

Ferrari has in effect admitted to being partly responsible for the problem by attempting to fix it and I think they should also have explained why the failures occurred to warn people. They oversold on the daily usage marketing message at the time. However, this was a new design and anyone who buys the first examples of new designs should and usually do understand they stand a risk of being a guinea pig in return for being the first kid on the block to own the new wonder toy. We all know that and warnings to heed that risk is repeated by people on FChat every time a new car is introduced. People who buy used cars should also heed the risk of buying early units of a new model, especially if they have extremely low miles.

So I feel car owners are also partly to blame because while all of us want to enjoy the promises that carmakers like to sell us, we should also heed the warning signs, examine our own expectations and help ourselves while we hold the carmakers accountable. Don’t expect the seller to always hold your hand. They run a business and know some owners will overreact and exaggerate the problem. Help yourself by becoming more knowledgeable and proactive, avoid daily driving routes that involve heavy traffic in hot conditions.

 

Was in the new Portofino yesterday... and have to say NO. it’s no where near as nice a looking as the California. It’s lost all of its styling charm and panache. It’s borderline bland. And the seats are too hard.
I reckon these last of the N/As are going to go up in value for the well looked after ones... especially the run out 30s.

 

I've said it many times. The Cali/Cali30 will stand the test of time and age very well.

 

White over red. One of my favorite color combos...

 

Pininfarina did the Cali design. I ordered a red one. In retrospect, after seeing a metallic gray one with cuio leather, I think that color combo was much more flattering.

I think the Portofino has an improved rear -end design both aesthetically and functionally since the tail lights are now functional.
But the overall impression is that the Pininfarina design is more retro inspired while the Ferrari Stilo design is more future focused.

 

Well this thread aged like milk….

 

Quick search :
Cali start at $120K +
Cali T $160K +

 

Of course I'm going to like this! I own a Cali 30.