Cam gear installation | FerrariChat

Cam gear installation

Discussion in '308/328' started by mustardfj40, May 26, 2009.

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  1. mustardfj40

    mustardfj40 Formula 3

    Jun 17, 2004
    1,142
    Northen California
    Full Name:
    Ken
    On a 328, after you install the the cam gear onto the camshaft, you need to torque the bolt to 70 lbs-ft. How do you keep the camshaft from turning? Thanks.
     
  2. FF8929

    FF8929 Formula Junior

    Apr 12, 2008
    799
    Livonia, Michigan
    Full Name:
    Fred Flynn

    I "C-clamp" an old timing belt around the gear, then block the c-clamp.
     
  3. mustardfj40

    mustardfj40 Formula 3

    Jun 17, 2004
    1,142
    Northen California
    Full Name:
    Ken
    #3 mustardfj40, May 26, 2009
    Last edited: May 26, 2009
    Thanks! What if the belt is already installed and timed correctly? I did some readings in the archives and found 2 ways to hold the camshaft:

    - Temporary placing the match book covers under cam caps and lightly tighten the caps to hold the camshaft from moving. Someone don't this method because if cap are over tighten, they will break.
    - Put tranny in 5th, engage hand brake. Someone don't like this because the torque is also applied on your timing belt when torqueing to bolt.

    What are other methods? How is it done from factory?

    I read that in some early 308 you can use an adjustable wrench to hold the camshaft but in the 328/QV there's no provisions on the shaft for you to get the wrench to.
     
  4. 2dinos

    2dinos F1 Rookie

    Jan 13, 2007
    2,772
    You put the belt on before tightening the cam sprocket? Fun fun fun. I can tell you I wouldn't use the new belt to hold it back. I can't think of any way to do it without scratching up the hardware, or making specialized tooling. Would you consider marking the positions / slipping the belt off to hold the sprocket / re-install the belt? Although you're not supposed to re-use the belts.

    How we love them so.
     
  5. waymar

    waymar Formula 3

    Sep 2, 2008
    1,321
    Northeast, PA - USA
    Full Name:
    Wayne Martin
    The cams on my 1982 308 had a hex shape just inside the cam pulley. I used a very large adjustable wrench to hold them from turning. I did mine prior to installing the belts.
     
  6. FF8929

    FF8929 Formula Junior

    Apr 12, 2008
    799
    Livonia, Michigan
    Full Name:
    Fred Flynn
    #6 FF8929, May 26, 2009
    Last edited: May 26, 2009
    I'm going to assume that you have not started the engine with the new belts on. If this is the case, I would remove the belts, and use my method described in the above post. Then, as a "character building" exercise, re-time it (or just mark it before). I don't believe that removing and replacing the unused belts is a concern.
     
  7. CliffBeer

    CliffBeer Formula 3

    Apr 3, 2005
    2,198
    Seattle, Washington
    Full Name:
    Cliff
    I've used a large Ford wrench on a cam lobe (use a piece of leather or something similar to wrap it). The Ford wrench does not cause surface damage as does a plumber's wrench.
     
  8. mustardfj40

    mustardfj40 Formula 3

    Jun 17, 2004
    1,142
    Northen California
    Full Name:
    Ken
    Ok guys, belts are not on yet, I'm still in the research phase. You can see it from the bottom of this post, that he used the new belts to hold the cam gear when torquing down the bolt:

    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showpost.php?p=134262546&postcount=2

    From my understanding of reading the 308QV/328 workshop manual, it's one of the ways to match up the notches on camshaft and cam cap that after installing the new belt, you use the holes on the cam gear and cam shaft to align the notches, after that you insert the driving dowel and torque the bolt down later (page B42 of the manual). The other way is move the cam gear one tooth over under the belt. But there are time you need to use both methods to align the notches.

    So you guys torque the cam gear bolts down before installing the belt? If that's the case then it's much easier to torque it down outside of the engine. But can you get the notches line up perfectly by just moving the belt over the cam gear?

    Thanks.
     
  9. mustardfj40

    mustardfj40 Formula 3

    Jun 17, 2004
    1,142
    Northen California
    Full Name:
    Ken
    Thanks. Has anyone look at their camshafts closely? On my camshafts near the pulley ends, I can see some dings and scratch marks, my guess is at the factory, Ferrari used some kind of wrenches to hold down the camshafts to torque the bolts when assemble the engine? Or some kinds of vise grip to turn the camshafts for alignment with the cam gears (pulleys) holes?
     
  10. Verell

    Verell F1 Veteran
    Consultant Owner

    May 5, 2001
    7,017
    Groton, MA
    Full Name:
    Verell Boaen
    #10 Verell, May 27, 2009
    Last edited: May 27, 2009
    NO - see below.



    You can't start by torquing the cam gear bolt down. To dial in the timing, or to align the notches, You have to install the new belt and check the timing. Most likely you'll find that the timing is off and requires adjustment. You then adjust the cam pinning until you're satisfied with the result, at which point the cam gear bolts can be torqued down.

    If you don't want to use the new belt to hold the cams in place while tightening, you can temporarily replace it with an old belt, or remove the cam (again risking damaging the new cam seals) and torque the bolt down externally. In either case, when the new belt is finally reinstalled, the timing will either be as you adjusted it, or else you'll find that it's off by a tooth(been there) and the timing will be correct when you get it on correctly.

    Whether using the new or old belt to restrain a cam while torqueing, you need to do the following to ensure the belt can't jump teeth:
    - Release the tensioner, make sure it's taken up as much belt slack as possible, then tighten it down.
    - Install 2 large binder clips on each of the cam gears, & 2 smaller ones on the cam drive gear. (or some other equivalent clamping method that won't hurt the belt).
    - put the engine in 5th gear, & lock the parking brake. Then rotate the engine until all of the slack is taken out of the drive train, so the engine won't move during the torqueing process.
     
  11. Verell

    Verell F1 Veteran
    Consultant Owner

    May 5, 2001
    7,017
    Groton, MA
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    Verell Boaen
    In one of the WSMs or SBs Ferrari actually suggests using a pair of vicegrips on the cams and duct taping their handles together to hold the cams while pinning the cam gears. I occasionally come across it, but don't have the reference handy. It DOES NOT suggest also using them while torqueing the cam gear bolts down.
     
  12. mustardfj40

    mustardfj40 Formula 3

    Jun 17, 2004
    1,142
    Northen California
    Full Name:
    Ken
    Thanks, Verell.
     
  13. Jagerocks

    Jagerocks Karting

    Sep 29, 2019
    82
    Full Name:
    JASON
    Did you have the cams locked together like Birdmans instructions. I'm just going to do mine....I'm soooo nervous that they will turn. I do see the large hex at the backside of gear that will help.
     
  14. Jagerocks

    Jagerocks Karting

    Sep 29, 2019
    82
    Full Name:
    JASON
    My t.belt is off and the gears locked with a blocked ..
    Now in was going to replace the 4 cam gears and hold the cam at the hex on the end to torque....should I remove the wooden cam lock I made.? 1st
     
  15. waymar

    waymar Formula 3

    Sep 2, 2008
    1,321
    Northeast, PA - USA
    Full Name:
    Wayne Martin
    Before removing the cam gears. Take note on each gear. There are several pin hole on the cam and on the pulley used to adjust timing. These marks a critical to cam timing.
     

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