488 GTB and Pista Alignment Specs | FerrariChat

488 GTB and Pista Alignment Specs

Discussion in '458 Italia/488/F8' started by mdrums, Oct 24, 2019.

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  1. mdrums

    mdrums Formula 3

    Jun 11, 2006
    2,172
    Tampa FL
    I have searched and can’t find 488 GTB and Pista specs for alignment.

    Also anyone know if and what the difference in the 488GTB shocks and springs and sway bars are to the Pista?

    I plan on a second set of wheels with Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 tires...stock size for some track use. MPSC2 do not need crazy camber but a touch more helps which is why I wanted to compare 488GTB and Pista stock alignment specs to get a run of thumb possible starting point.

    I come from the Porsche world where this info is plentiful and alignment comparisons with guys that come from different tracks on Rennlist is easy to find.

    Thanks in advance for any info and help!
     
  2. mdrums

    mdrums Formula 3

    Jun 11, 2006
    2,172
    Tampa FL
    Guess no one has this info...anyone have a shop manual to look in?
     
  3. BlueCorsa

    BlueCorsa Rookie

    Jan 15, 2018
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    Blue Corsa
    Unfortunately, Ferrari dealers dont allow custom alignment specs and say it can void the warranty. Their parts department won’t even sell the shims needed to add camber to the front.

    Coming from a Porsche to 488, this is a dissapointment, but hopefully you can find a shop to do it. Still the warranty issue to deal with if you can get it adjusted.

    They come with basically zero negative camber from the factory.
     
    mdrums likes this.
  4. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Veteran

    May 29, 2019
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    Not true.

    The local dealer here usually do an alignment of every new car that comes in. And the most common thing is that they add a bit of camber depending on the customers wishes. But generally speaking, things like toe and caster is fine in factory settings.

    As far as the actual difference between Pista and 488 springs and shocks? That's not info you can get. Note that Pista springs might not be the right spring for a 488. I would start with a set of Novi springs and go from there. The 488 is already fitted with a nice amount of damper from the factory, so it can easily support a bit more spring without being over-sprung.

    The 488 on MPSC2 will tend to push a bit, so it does help adding more camber in the front than you add in the rear. But consider which MPSC2 version you choose. There's the Speciale version which has a wider tread patch than the Pista spec. You might want to consider using the Speciale spec fronts (the K1) along with the Pista rears (the K2), as that will bias the car a bit more towards neutral and oversteer.

    Front tread of the Speciale tyres are 8.7" wide.
    Rear tread of the Speciale tyres are 11.7" wide.
    So the Speciale set is 34.5% rear biased in width.

    Front tread of the Pista tyres are 8.3" wide.
    Rear tread of the Pista tyres are 11.1" wide.
    So the Pista set is 33.75% rear biased.

    Combining the Speciale front with the Pista rears will yield a 27.5% rear bias.

    Note that I am not talking about the R compound Pista tyres here. Regular MPSC2, as the R compound is probably too much for the 488 setup to handle without significant changes.

    Also consider having your car corner balanced. That can yield a significant change.
     
    Farbod Farmand and mdrums like this.
  5. LVP488

    LVP488 F1 Rookie

    Jan 21, 2017
    4,839
    France
    Looking quickly at a site selling original Ferrari parts (like eurospares.co.uk) you can get the part numbers for the elements of the 488 and Pista suspensions (no F8 yet); springs and shocks are apparently different but antiroll bars are the same.
     
  6. BlueCorsa

    BlueCorsa Rookie

    Jan 15, 2018
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    Blue Corsa
    Custom alignment must be dealer specific as mine wouldn’t do it & said they’d deny warranty claims arising from custom alignment (or tracking in general).
     
  7. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Veteran

    May 29, 2019
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    That dealer is in the wrong business.

    What dealer is that? Never heard of such a ridiculous thing from a Ferrari dealer. I'm sure they don't have any clients running in the Challenge.
     
  8. BlueCorsa

    BlueCorsa Rookie

    Jan 15, 2018
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    It’s a disappointment. This dealer sells/runs challenge cars and their response to custom alignment specs is to buy a challenge car.
     
  9. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Veteran

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    Time to find a new dealer. Where are you located?
     
  10. BlueCorsa

    BlueCorsa Rookie

    Jan 15, 2018
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    Houston TX. I can understand them not wanting to install certain performance mods, but 1-2 degrees negative camber isn’t asking for much.
     
  11. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Veteran

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    Dealer playing games...

    On a different note. I saw in another thread that you are using Pagid pads. Are you still doing that, and do you have any experience with the RSC2 and RSC3 pads? The noise levels and life of stock pads is simply not up to par.
     
  12. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Veteran

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    One thing ho remember. If there ever is a warranty issue, they have the burden of proof, to show the alteration caused the problem.

    Have you considered having a good race shop doing the alignment for you? Or maybe just contact another dealer and ask if they will do it?
     
  13. BlueCorsa

    BlueCorsa Rookie

    Jan 15, 2018
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    Blue Corsa
    Yes, got the camber done at another shop in the end.

    I didn’t have a chance to run rsc2 or rsc3. The rsc1 pads felt a little better than stock and seemed to have slightly better bite and less fade, although I also switched to SRF fluid at the same time which helped as well. The RSC1 only lasted only 3 track days on front and the rears are still good after 5 days, so the wear rate may not be any better than stock pads.


    I run SC2’s with no issues. The fronts last 3 days but the rear tires don’t wear as much surprisingly.
     
  14. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Veteran

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    Okay thanks.

    Makes a lot of sense with your tyres. My experience is the same. The 488 is very hard on the fronts compared to the rears. It does tend to push a bit so this does wear them out fast. 255 tyres up from might be a better choice, making the tyres work a bit less hard, and at the same time move the natural rotation of the turn-in a bit more forward.
     
  15. Anindith Reddy

    Apr 30, 2018
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    Anindith Reddy
    I have run the exact same setup and I feel the front suspension on the 488 is too soft for heavy track duty; hence the front rolling over and wearing out faster. Heres a pic from a recent track day that shows the body roll on SC2's . As for the brakes; the stock pads did last a bit longer than the RSC1's .

    I Would be interested on feedback on the RSC2/3 and if theres a stiffer suspension option.




    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  16. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Veteran

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    You could go with the Novi springs. I know some say they are "just rebranded KW spring", but that's a silly statement. Yes, they are manufactured by KW, and? KW make some seriously good springs. Anyone who says differently, is either a brand snob or a no-nothing fink. They are made to Novi's specifications, and they have taken great care making sure the rate and progression is as it should be. Yes, you pay for the Novi name, but you also pay for endless hours of testing and you end up with a product that work. I drove a 458 with H&R springs years ago, and while it was okay, not great, but okay on track, it was useless on the road. Not because it was overly hard, but because the spring rate was such that the car was extremely oversprung in bumpy road mode. Even in normal stiff damper setting, you could feel the wheels losing contact as they skipped sometimes. I've yet to drive a car with Novi springs that disappoint. Do I think they are a must for all Ferraris? No, absolutely not, but if the situation calls for a stiffer spring, that's where I'd start.
     
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  17. mdrums

    mdrums Formula 3

    Jun 11, 2006
    2,172
    Tampa FL
    Bringing this back up to the top...still needing the stock alignment specs.

    Why?

    Well because my independent shop that did all my Porsche alignments and are great friends of mine will lower my 488GTB on stock springs to .75” lower than stock, keep my rake the same, so inner to know stock specs to see what toe and caster is and keep this in stock specs as I just want slightly more camber and slightly lower car.

    Ferrari dealer tell me this will void suspension and possibly rear axle and transmit warranty plus dealer charges around 50% more. So my Indy shop can lower and measure and align to my camber specs keeping stock toe and caster specs.
     
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  18. mdrums

    mdrums Formula 3

    Jun 11, 2006
    2,172
    Tampa FL
    Ok well guess not..nobody has any alignment spec.... yawn
     
  19. Dumb question, but could you not ask a Ferrari dealer for the OEM alignment specs?
     
  20. mdrums

    mdrums Formula 3

    Jun 11, 2006
    2,172
    Tampa FL
    Nope not a dumb question....they don't want to give out info really. My local Porsche indy shop is going to look it up on their Hunter Alignment machine though. Ferrari dealer had zero information about doing a slightly more aggressive alignment or what stock front to rear height was in case I lowered the car on stock coiler .5" and wanted to keep factory rake. They didn't seem very performance orientated, plus since I did not buy the car from them they are not exactly friendly. I tried to buy from them but they never had a 488GTB with close to the specs I wanted...came close but the deal was very very bad. Oh well...
     
  21. mdrums

    mdrums Formula 3

    Jun 11, 2006
    2,172
    Tampa FL
    1. I wanted to post the 488GTB Alignment Spec I got from my dealer and from a friend with a Hunter alignment machine.
    2. Months ago I had tried to find the stock specs and any specs someone did to there own liking. I am posting this here so if someone searches 488GTB alignment spec, this thread is what comes up.
    3. What I am after is to take a little of the understeer out of the car. My front was at -.6 camber and rear was at -1.5 camber. I kept toe with in stock spec for now but increased front camber by .6 degrees and rear only .1 degree. This has helped but I might need more like -1.5 degree...I will see.
    4. The car drives great on the street too and I lowered it slightly with Novitec springs and the ride is stock like but more compliant over sharp bumps and the car leans less in hard corners.


      Ferrari 488 GTB Specs


      TIRES

      Front 245-35-20 26.8” Overall Diameter

      Rear 305-30-20 27.2” Overall Diameter




      OEM STOCK ALIGNMENT

      Front
      Camber : -1 / -.6 Degrees
      Toes: -.11 / -.06 Degrees IN
      Caster : 4.7 / 5.5 Degrees

      Rear
      Camber : -1.5/ -1.1 (factory-1.33 degrees)
      Toe : +.13 /+.19 Degrees

      MY ALIGNMENT SPECS

      Front
      Camber : -1.2 degrees per side
      Toe : -.09 degrees OUT (.7mm aprox ) out per side
      Caster : non-adjustable 5.8 Degrees


      Rear
      Camber : -1.6 degrees per side
      Toe : +.15 degrees IN (1.4mm aprox) per side inward
     
    docster likes this.
  22. BlueCorsa

    BlueCorsa Rookie

    Jan 15, 2018
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    where did you buy the shims needed to add negative camber to the front?
     
  23. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Veteran

    May 29, 2019
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    You can get them from Scuderia Carparts or Eurospares.
     
  24. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Veteran

    May 29, 2019
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    Not sure where the dealer got those specs from, but they are incorrect - especially considering Ferrari deals in minutes for toe, not degrees, and no Ferrari runs front toe in from factory.

    Here are the correct 488 GTB specs
    I will post three numbers per line. The reason is, that there is a margin. I.e the left number is the minimum, the middle is recommended, and the right is maximum. The numbers are for each side. Note that 60 minutes represent 1 whole degree. - means negatvie and + means positive. For toe negative is out.

    Front:
    Toe: -7 min, -5 min, -3 min
    Camber: -33 min, -48 min, -1 degr
    Caster: +4degr 43 min, +5 degr 7 min, 5 degr 31 min.

    Rear:
    Toe: +8 min, +10 min, +11 min
    Camber: -1 degr 8 min, 1 degr 20 min, 1 degr 32 min

    I'll be happy to convert to mm or degrees if anyone needs them. But those are the numbers as shown by both the bench at my dealers and the TSM, as well as the database from the bench computer at the speed shop I use to do my alignments.

    Here's what I run on the 488.

    Front:
    Toe: -10 min
    Camber: -1 degr 45 min
    Caster: 4 degr 54 min

    Rear:
    Toe: -8 min
    Camber: -1 degr 24 min
     
  25. mdrums

    mdrums Formula 3

    Jun 11, 2006
    2,172
    Tampa FL
    I can’t edit my post...but stock front toe is OUT and rear is IN....sorry I reversed this...posting late at night....LOL Also covereted to degree as that is what I am use to...that and mm’s...dealer has the Hunter alignment machine convert...

    Can you convert to degree please ;-) Thanks!
     

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