Pulling the Pans | FerrariChat

Pulling the Pans

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by mwr4440, Oct 9, 2007.

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  1. mwr4440

    mwr4440 Five Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jun 8, 2007
    55,828
    Bavaria, The 'Other' Germany
    Full Name:
    Mark W.R.
    F-Team,

    You got me. It is time to play my least favorite game, "Stump the Chump." By the way in this round, I am "the Chump."

    I am planning on pulling both the Oil and Trans pans on my 81 308 GTSi to replace the gaskets, as the car leaks. Those are on-order.

    The oil pan I am pretty confident in (I think), but the X-mission is giving me doubts. I have read in the threads here, lots of stuff about being carefull as there are springs, caps, balls, etc., that can take-a-hike PDQ (pretty damn quick) if you are not carefull. Yet, when I look in the official 308 GTSi Parts Manual (paid thru the nose for that darn thing), I see nothing there. Zip, Zero, Zilch, Nada, Nada darn thing.

    From other threads there seems to be 3 sets of these things (springs, caps, balls) but I can find nothing. Please help.

    Also, what else should I do (parts to replace assuming everything is bad) while these two pans are on sitting on the work bench for general cleaning?

    Any and all help (including Ferrari or after-market part number, please) would be most appreciated.

    Very Respectfully to All, and Thanx in Advance,

    Mark
    US Army, Germany
     
  2. 308tr6

    308tr6 Formula Junior

    Dec 23, 2003
    466
    SDakota
    Full Name:
    Rico
    #2 308tr6, Oct 9, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Well, obviously this is upside down, but if you look to the right edge of the pan where the input shaft from your bell housing enters you will see 3 little thingies (between the studs). When you take the trans pan off, these fall out. There should be a spring, and a little washer from each hole, and then one little cap from one of the holes. Just be careful when taking the pan off and knowing they are going to want to pop out (and note exactly where they are so you can catch them).

    But...in my opinion having just done this twice, the motor oil pan is more troublesome because the baffles are attached to the pan plate and in my case I had a heck of a time trying to wiggle it off - ended up removing the baffles (but of course I had the luxury of not having the engine attached to it). Anyway, I assume you can take it off and just wiggle around with the baffles. Also, I think you may have to remove the temperature sensor that goes into the sump. Someone else can probably help here...but that's my .02. Good luck!

    Oh, and THANKS for watching out for us!
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  3. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jan 11, 2001
    25,035
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
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    Steve Magnusson
    #3 Steve Magnusson, Oct 9, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  4. Artvonne

    Artvonne F1 Veteran

    Oct 29, 2004
    5,379
    NWA
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    Paul
    If you look at the pictures of that gearbox, youll notice the gasket is very wide. Before I would go to all the trouble taking the pans off, I would carefully check and retighten all the pan nuts. There is a very good chance it will stop, or greatly reduce your leakage.

    As to oil pan removal, you need to remove the oil temp sender, and the dipstick extension tube. You need a short 27MM open end wrench (I cut a craftsman in two). Unscrew the dipstick tube nut at the gearbox, If your careful you can swing it out away from the hole (remove the dipstick first) and may not have to undo the top mounting. Stick your finger or a magnet in the hole and retrieve the extension tube. The pan will come down while rolling it rearward. It actually comes out quite easy once those two items are clear, otherwise its quite impossible.

    Its scraping the gaskets off around all those studs thats the real b****. Thats why I suggest you tighten the nuts first if you really dont have needs to go in there. Scraping off those gaskets could take longer than all the rest of the job combined. But if your going to do it, replace the shift shaft o-rings and carefully check your shift fork alignment while your in there. You may want to upgrade the engine oil pan baffle too.
     
  5. BillyD

    BillyD Formula 3
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    Feb 28, 2004
    1,774
    Pacific Northwest
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    Bill
    I learned years ago that oil leaks from the top down & rarely comes from where you suspect. Any clean areas mean an oil leak. Nothing like a little dye & black lite to verify you're on the right track.
    just my .02
    Bill
     
  6. docweed

    docweed Formula Junior

    Dec 8, 2004
    452
    Morgantown,WV
    Full Name:
    Chuck Stewart
     
  7. Mark 328

    Mark 328 Formula Junior

    Nov 6, 2003
    510
    Orange, Ca
    Full Name:
    Mark Foley
    There are some old posts which helped me pull my pans and replace the shifter shaft seal (if you have leaks you should probably replace these seals too.
    When I finished, I wrote these notes:

    1) Prior to starting the job, from the top remove the dipstick tube bolt from the timing belt cover, the torque rod? (see below) and the battery prior to jacking car-up.

    2) Prior to removing dipstick and oil temp sending unit; use a spray cleaner in the area (prevents grime from entering hole after removal).

    3) Engine probably does not have to be lifted-up. I disconnected the cat and slightly lifted engine, but not sure if this was needed. If you do want to lift engine be sure to disconnect torque rod from rear valve cover. On my car there was interference between the shifter rod (from shifter) and the shift shaft being removed from the engine. The fuel tank cross-over tube could be pushed out of the way to allow removal and refitting of the shaft. (it would be good to include the fuel tank sleeves with this procedure) The adjustment fitting does not have to be unloosened.

    4) The shift shaft seal is a poor excuse for a seal; it looked like the OD of my seal was the weakest link; if the engine was out, I would fit a regular lip seal with a spring squeezing the lip onto the shaft.

    5) Dipstick fitting into the case was hard to access and the fitting is very tight. Tried Snap-on 6 Pt, 24mm socket and it would not clear the threaded nipple; 1” deep was unwieldy and could not get long ratchet on it. What worked well for me was a Craftsman 12 Pt 24mm, Std length socket with a extended-length Craftsman Flex ratchet. This ended-up being a very positive arrangement and the fitting just spun-out.

    6) People have said this is an approx 9 hour job—this is pretty accurate for a first time, but having the right tools for removing the dipstick fitting would probably knock-off 2 hours (and an unquantifiable gain in frustration relief).

    7) It would be best to drain the oil out of both sumps at least a day before (a week would be preferable) —the longer the better otherwise oil will keep dripping down of the gears, pickup tube, Etc.

    8) Prior to removal of dipstick tube—put a mark on it (for clocking alignment), near where it fits to the block, to facilitate installation. It is difficult to move the tube around trying to get it in the right place when you are trying to reinstall it.

    Enjoy,
    Mark


    Pan Only:

    Prior to starting the job, from the top remove the dipstick tube bolt from the timing belt cover

    Prior to removing dipstick and oil temp sending unit; use a spray cleaner in the area (prevents grime from entering hole after removal).

    Dipstick fitting into the case was hard to access and the fitting is very tight. Tried Snap-on 6 Pt, 24mm socket and it would not clear the threaded nipple; 1” deep was unwieldy and could not get long ratchet on it. What worked well for me was a Craftsman 12 Pt 24mm, Std length socket with a extended-length Craftsman Flex ratchet. This ended-up being a very positive arrangement and the fitting just spun-out.

    Also need to remove the Temp sender.

    You should really look up oil pan removal and shift shaft seal in the archives. If you are unprepared the job is a real PIA.
     
  8. Jagerocks

    Jagerocks Karting

    Sep 29, 2019
    82
    Full Name:
    JASON
    So how did replacing the shifter seal work out. Did parts fall out of the trans pan and did you have to remove the shifter shaft out of trans. Or just pick seal out from outside the case. I'm just going to replace mine. BUT before I do I want to see how others made out...
    Please anyone reply. Thx
     
  9. absostone

    absostone F1 Veteran
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    Jul 28, 2008
    9,178
    Yes shift shaft needs to be removed. There are 2 seals
     
  10. Jagerocks

    Jagerocks Karting

    Sep 29, 2019
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    JASON
  11. mwr4440

    mwr4440 Five Time F1 World Champ
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    Jun 8, 2007
    55,828
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    Mark W.R.
    Find those other balls and springs.

    YES, I 'broke' my shift shaft, removed the fork and pulled out that last section when I changed out my shift shsft seals. I also changed out the two silent blocks holding the 3 shift shaft sections together.

    While you're there, remove your shift lever and clean the dinosaur bones out.

    :)
     
  12. Drew Altemara

    Drew Altemara Formula 3

    Feb 11, 2002
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    Drew Altemara
    Just curious. What is the function of the three springs and ball bearing points that seem to fall out?
     
  13. absostone

    absostone F1 Veteran
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    Jul 28, 2008
    9,178
    tension the gear shafts I believe
     
  14. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    25,035
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    #14 Steve Magnusson, Oct 8, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2019
    They give a more positive locating/detent feel for the moving shift rods in each of their three positions.
     

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