After changing to MTL a year ago, my 328 & Dino both shift great when cold into 2nd gear. Better than the NS which is also good.
I experienced the same change when I switched to MTL in my 328. I goes right into 2nd even when cold. It was quite the difference and was glad I read this thread earlier.
Redline: MT-90, MT-80, MTL the engine bay plate on my ‘82 suggests 80w/90 which would be MT-90 (75w/90). I used MTL the last time, thinking MT-90 this time.
Everyone sounds sold on MTL. I used it and had a transfer case bearing fail. FWIW: I too loved the MTL. Shifting was light/precise/quick warm or cold~~~~Fantastic! Bearing might have been bad to begin with - who knows?. Here's the interesting part ---> I called the tech line at RL to discuss and was told "RL does not want their MTL used in Ferrari 308 gearboxes". Reason being, the GL4 rating does not provide the shock load protection. I told RL my decision was based on the 308 not having a hypoid differential, and that was a contraindication on the MTL bottle. Told by RL, "It doesn't matter, get the MTL out of there!" So they sent me a case of RL 75W90 Gear Oil (very cool!). That has worked great too! No limited slip chatter, and shifts very good. (NOTE: not as easy as the MTL, but still very good). This was ~20 years ago, but I have stayed with the 75W90 for my transaxle oil changes. So in-my-humble-opinion, ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ We love them so!
Too funny! A RL tech recommended MTL for my 328 when I talked to them about the subject in '17 when I was contemplating the switch from the Motul to RL. Go figure...
Similar discussion in the 246 forum:- https://ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/whats-the-best-gearbox-oil-for-the-dino-246.606850/page-2 See post 27 & 32 - Bottom line Redline don't recommend MTL in the 246 & 308 boxes?
I'm a little confused but not entirely surprised. The RL gent of years ago was possibly conservative? Maybe formulation is different ?? FWIW: Another 308 owner / mechanical engineer and and long time Italian car buff asked for my help to do his 308 clutch. At that time we changed to MTL (again years and years ago if this matters?) as I was touting the great shifting performance. He was shocked and somewhat alarmed that it felt "thin" and doubted the protection and original engineering intent compared to the non-synthetic lubricants originally used. He changed back immediately to the more typical petro-stock 80W90 gear oil. I'm still a believer in the RL technology and products, but have elected as well to use the more 'conservative' RL offerings.
So, RL would recommend the 75/90 NS ? How about MT-90 ? I put MTL in the Dino and 328 and MT-90 in the 355 at the recommendation of Brian “Rifledriver”.
have had MTL in my f355 for 20 years, other redline oil and amsoil result in a notchy second gear when cold
I have used MTL, MT85 and MT90 (and they can all be mixed so make your own blend if you wish), and they felt about the same in terms of shift quality, maybe an ever to slight edge to the MTL for overall ease of shifting. All gave a notable (but not dramatic) better feel on my 3.2 than the 75W90NS which was the default Redline recommendation. An Amsoil choice was not good for me, made for balky shifting. The correct blend for the specific level of syncro wear in a specific transmission probably varies among the cars. Unless the car is tracked, I would go with MTL and not think further about it. If this worries you, the MT85 might be a sensible compromise, and the MT90 if sticking with the factory viscosity recommendation will make you sleep at night. But I did my research, experimented with different blends and can confirm an MTL recommendation is technically and practically sound, and perhaps not surprisingly aligns with some of the most knowledgeable posters on Fchat.
You say that's Redline's default position, exactly, that's their recommendation after proper analysis and testing or do you think they just plucked a oil out of thin air - really!!! If you are a expert in this field then we could benefit more from your guidance but the problem I have with your recommendation is that it goes against the technical advice from several leading oil companies and as my box and diff are at stake I would not risk it. Too late when it a pile of metal on the floor! the 308 called for a GL5 spec oil (AGIP Rotra MP) so with the greatest respect I'll stick to what the professionals and Ferrari tell me thanks. Incidentally Castrol, Shell and AGIP all recommend a GL5 oil. Tony
Pray tell, then why is it that many people have experienced grinding with the GL5 options, but perfectly smooth operation with MTL? Isn't the whole point of lubricant to eliminate such problems? Grinding is a bad thing in the gearbox. If MTL eliminates this, but GL5 does not, then I'd find it difficult to blindly accept "grinding is preferable" based on "That's the oil Redline suggests."
I say that's Redlines default position because the spec matches what Ferrari said (30+ years ago when tech was different) and they do not want to be sued so they dutifully follow the factory line. No way are they going to come out and say "Ferrari said this but we think that is better" and risk law suits from people who think the oil was the cause of their gearbox failure.
My owner's manual says the engine should use Agip Sint 10W50, which I believe is no longer even made. So....
Absolutely right (although, as I stated in an earlier post, a tech at Redline DID tell me in 2017 that MTL was fine in my 328). Frankly, I'd bet the store on recommendations from a mechanic who has been working on these cars for a lot of years FAR SOONER than I would take the advice of a current supplier of lubricants. The mech has FAR more experience with the specifics of these cars/their needs than any current maker of lubricant. I promise you that a current maker of lubes does not test them on 30 year old cars...
Yep - and I know which mechanic I'll trust too He mentioned it when I picked up the car the other day - said he felt it needed a transmission oil change because of notchiness.
Don't shoot the messenger boys, take aim at your Redline technical dept [Dave Granquist] Stick with what works for you but its a dangerous game expecting others to follow when you just react on hearsay or my mechanic told me .........! I'll stick with the professional people thanks this is his email Thank you for contacting Red Line Oil, in your 246gt transaxle or the 308 the 75W90NS would be recommended. This is a non slippery GL-5 gear oil, suitable for use with the synchros. The Ferrari limited slip units typically don’t chatter so don’t require any additional friction modifier. The MTL is a 75W80 GL-4 gear oil, a lower viscosity and different fluid than called for so wouldn’t be recommended. Followed up when questioning the different oils :- GL-4 gear oil is suitable for use in straight and helical cut transmission gears as well as low offset final drive gears. A GL-5 covers all of those GL-4 applications as well as high offset hypoid differential gears. In the older Ferrari manual transmission and transaxle applications a GL-5 gear oil was typically called for. Some GL-5 gear oils can be corrosive, cause pitting to brass, bronze or copper components, also many contain a friction modifier so can be too slippery for use with synchros as they are designed for differential use. Our EP/GL-5 gear oils contain a copper deactivator so are not corrosive to brass, bronze or copper components, the “NS” fluids are non slippery, non friction modified containing the proper coefficient of friction for the synchros. With our 75W90NS there is no need to be concerned regarding suitability or use with synchros. the key point is the lower viscosity. I use Castrol Axle EPX80W90 and it works perfectly, the AGIP oil was too slick. If you know better then I'm cool with that one too! Best tony
You calling my mechanic unprofessional? You think he doesn't know what he's talking about? I know who my mechanic is, and I would trust him.
Don't be so sensitive Dean, if your happy with a expensive oil such as MTL, use it, but my money is on the people who manufacture, test and adhere to strict standards in oil production and its use, moreover they have followed what the manufacturer has recommended with modern equivalents. Why wouldn't they. Your guy just puts the oil in the box or is selling you an expensive oil ????? Your best bet is to get the old oil tested and see Best tony
It seems you're the one getting sensitive here - making the rash claims of "professionals" and "selling you an expensive oil". My mechanic has probably seen the insides of more Ferrari gearboxes than you have ever touched in your life. I would take his professional opinion on oil over that of an oil company rep, and especially over anyone on a forum. You sound like one of the ones who change their belts every 3 years because Ferrari said so - or did they?
All good this end Dean Possibly has seen the inside of more gearboxes than me, but I use the right oil so wouldn't need to ? and btw it was their technical department - the clue is technical not a sales rep! I guess you are the type that doesn't and ends up with bent valves .................. Best Tony
I found the RL MTL notchy under very warm condition. My daily drive is Quattroporte 3.2 Evo with the 6-speed Getrag 420G - same as found in BMW M3 E36/M5 E39. I switched to Redline MTL as several M-enthusiasts praised this oil. Initially it felt very good - much better then the original spec 75W80 from factory. But,that all changed on a very hot summer 3000km long trip with high speeds hour after hour - it then started to feel very notchy and sometimes hard to shift - which made me unconfortable. I've later heard the same experience from users with BMW so I opted for a switch. Liqui Moly came out with their MTF a couple of years ago and after a years use it most definitely feels slickier and more reassuring in warm condition and that can only be a good thing. LM also approves of this oil for the Getrag box which is reassuring as they always stands behing their recommendations 100%
